Halesworth signal problems

[Davey]

My friends in Halesworth, Suffolk, report that their Sky broadband has
been having big signal problems. Also, their mobiles, not Sky, are
also having major signal losses. Sky sent a replacement router, which
did no good at all, and they couldn't talk to the folks in the house,
as the mobile signal was out. Their neighbours report similar
problems on several broadband and mobile networks. It is as though
there is a huge Faraday cage plonked over the town.
A great advert for the end of POTS!

[Graham J]

Post by Davey
My friends in Halesworth, Suffolk, report that their Sky broadband has
been having big signal problems. Also, their mobiles, not Sky, are
also having major signal losses. Sky sent a replacement router, which
did no good at all, and they couldn't talk to the folks in the house,
as the mobile signal was out. Their neighbours report similar
problems on several broadband and mobile networks. It is as though
there is a huge Faraday cage plonked over the town.
A great advert for the end of POTS!

A Faraday cage would not affect POTS.

How long has this been going on for?

The only rational solution for a POTS replacement is FTTP - but we all
kwnow it will be VoIP over ADSL or VDSL broadband for many years to come!

And 2G/3G/4G/5G will never serve all areas or all users - partly because
it's shared spectrum, and partly because it doesn't go through walls.

[Davey]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 19:04:16 +0100

Post by Graham J

Post by Davey
My friends in Halesworth, Suffolk, report that their Sky broadband
has been having big signal problems. Also, their mobiles, not Sky,
are also having major signal losses. Sky sent a replacement router,
which did no good at all, and they couldn't talk to the folks in
the house, as the mobile signal was out. Their neighbours report
similar problems on several broadband and mobile networks. It is as
though there is a huge Faraday cage plonked over the town.
A great advert for the end of POTS!

A Faraday cage would not affect POTS.

Their POTS line is not affected. Maybe it is a big Faraday cage....

Post by Graham J
How long has this been going on for?

Their message says it started earlier in the week.

Post by Graham J
The only rational solution for a POTS replacement is FTTP - but we
all kwnow it will be VoIP over ADSL or VDSL broadband for many years
to come!
And 2G/3G/4G/5G will never serve all areas or all users - partly
because it's shared spectrum, and partly because it doesn't go
through walls.

At the moment, they can't be sure of any method of communication except
POTS. So much for the great Digital Revolution.

[David Wade]

Post by Graham J

Post by Davey
My friends in Halesworth, Suffolk, report that their Sky broadband has
been having big signal problems. Also, their mobiles, not Sky, are
also having major signal losses. Sky sent a replacement router, which
did no good at all, and they couldn't talk to the folks in the house,
as the mobile signal was out. Their neighbours report similar
problems on several broadband and mobile networks. It is as though
there is a huge Faraday cage plonked over the town.
A great advert for the end of POTS!

A Faraday cage would not affect POTS.
How long has this been going on for?
The only rational solution for a POTS replacement is FTTP - but we all
kwnow it will be VoIP over ADSL or VDSL broadband for many years to come!

Pretty sure BT wants to roll out real fibre as fast as possible, Its
already available in parts of Halesworth..

https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAHSW

Post by Graham J
And 2G/3G/4G/5G will never serve all areas or all users - partly because
it's shared spectrum, and partly because it doesn't go through walls.

.. and partly because no one wants a mast 100 yards away from their house...

Dave

[NY]

Post by David Wade

Post by Graham J

Post by Davey
My friends in Halesworth, Suffolk, report that their Sky broadband has
been having big signal problems. Also, their mobiles, not Sky, are
also having major signal losses. Sky sent a replacement router, which
did no good at all, and they couldn't talk to the folks in the house,
as the mobile signal was out. Their neighbours report similar
problems on several broadband and mobile networks. It is as though
there is a huge Faraday cage plonked over the town.
A great advert for the end of POTS!

A Faraday cage would not affect POTS.
How long has this been going on for?
The only rational solution for a POTS replacement is FTTP - but we all
kwnow it will be VoIP over ADSL or VDSL broadband for many years to come!

Pretty sure BT wants to roll out real fibre as fast as possible, Its
already available in parts of Halesworth..
https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAHSW

Post by Graham J
And 2G/3G/4G/5G will never serve all areas or all users - partly because
it's shared spectrum, and partly because it doesn't go through walls.

.. and partly because no one wants a mast 100 yards away from their house...

How easy is it to maintain a fibre connection if the cable gets damaged by
something? If a tree falls on a copper drop cable between pole and house, or
an underground cable gets damaged, the wires can be joined by a simple
screw-block junction box. Not possible with fibre. Is the aim with fibre
that only the drop cable will be replaced, with a precision splice up a
pole, or will they try to replace the whole fibre from house back to
repeater box (maybe green cabinet)?

How easy is it to locate a fault in a fibre where the break could be
anywhere over the green-cab-to-house length. Is there an equivalent of the
technique with copper that they can look for the time delay in echoes from
the source to the break?

In other words, will BTOR still be able to fix line faults as quickly as
they can with copper? Or will phone and internet generally be down for
longer once people go to FTTP?

[Graham J]

Post by NY
How easy is it to maintain a fibre connection if the cable gets damaged
by something? If a tree falls on a copper drop cable between pole and
house, or an underground cable gets damaged, the wires can be joined by
a simple screw-block junction box. Not possible with fibre. Is the aim
with fibre that only the drop cable will be replaced, with a precision
splice up a pole, or will they try to replace the whole fibre from house
back to repeater box (maybe green cabinet)?

My FTTP installation - established 6 March this year - involved a
ready-made patch cable being plugged into a junction box at the top of
the pole at the boundary of my property, and another ready-match patch
cable being run from the ONT (indoors) through a hole in the wall. The
free ends of each of these cables were spliced in a square grey box
mounted on the wall of the house. Took less than an hour for the
Openreach tecnician to complete the work.

If either of these fail, it is the same straightforward job to replace
the failed length.

The junction box at the top of the pole has (I think) 8 sockets so the
fibre that feeds it must be at least 8-core. It looks about 6mm
diameter, black with a yellow stripe. This runs several hundred metres
- strung on the existing poles - to another junction box where it merges
with other similar fibre-cable runs. From there the fibre runs
underground to a more central aggregation point which may well not be
associated with any existing telephone exchange.

The existing "green cabinet" plays no part in this.

Post by NY
How easy is it to locate a fault in a fibre where the break could be
anywhere over the green-cab-to-house length. Is there an equivalent of
the technique with copper that they can look for the time delay in
echoes from the source to the break?

The technician who installed my fibre had a simple "light level" meter
and verified that the loss between the top of the pole and the plug to
feed the ONT was acceptable.

For faultfinding OR will use an optical time-domain reflectometer to
look for breaks or other problems.

Post by NY
In other words, will BTOR still be able to fix line faults as quickly as
they can with copper? Or will phone and internet generally be down for
longer once people go to FTTP?

Copper (and aluminium) pairs suffer from all sorts of faults. Generally
these degrade voice transmission but not to the point of unusablilty.
But they degrade ADSL or VDSL connections for the same reasons, plus
electrical interference from the likes of electric fences. Further,
their use to carry high speed digital signals is a really clever kludge
using sophisicated processing to get performance which wasn't designed
into the system 140 years ago. So - unless you are very lucky -
internet connection reliability is crap.

By contrast, fibre optic cables are designed for the job and give a
guaranteed level of performance. They are immune to electrical
interference. Of course the fibres need to be protected from mechanical
assaults. But in general they will be much more reliable. This may of
course mean that there will be fewer techicians trained in faultfinding
and repair!

Ultimately this will be the responsibility of Openreach, so I don't
expect any sort of improvement in time to repair.

[David Wade]

Post by NY

Post by David Wade

Post by Graham J

Post by Davey
My friends in Halesworth, Suffolk, report that their Sky broadband has
been having big signal problems. Also, their mobiles, not Sky, are
also having major signal losses. Sky sent a replacement router, which
did no good at all, and they couldn't talk to the folks in the house,
as the mobile signal was out. Their neighbours report similar
problems on several broadband and mobile networks. It is as though
there is a huge Faraday cage plonked over the town.
A great advert for the end of POTS!

A Faraday cage would not affect POTS.
How long has this been going on for?
The only rational solution for a POTS replacement is FTTP - but we
all kwnow it will be VoIP over ADSL or VDSL broadband for many years
to come!

Pretty sure BT wants to roll out real fibre as fast as possible, Its
already available in parts of Halesworth..
https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAHSW

Post by Graham J
And 2G/3G/4G/5G will never serve all areas or all users - partly
because it's shared spectrum, and partly because it doesn't go
through walls.

.. and partly because no one wants a mast 100 yards away from their house...

How easy is it to maintain a fibre connection if the cable gets damaged
by something? If a tree falls on a copper drop cable between pole and
house, or an underground cable gets damaged, the wires can be joined by
a simple screw-block junction box. Not possible with fibre. Is the aim
with fibre that only the drop cable will be replaced, with a precision
splice up a pole, or will they try to replace the whole fibre from house
back to repeater box (maybe green cabinet)?

Same with Fibre. There is a junction box at the top of the pole, and
another, at ground level on the front of my house. The BT network is
entirely passive, there are no "repeaters". The fibre can be up to 20km
long.

Post by NY
How easy is it to locate a fault in a fibre where the break could be
anywhere over the green-cab-to-house length. Is there an equivalent of
the technique with copper that they can look for the time delay in
echoes from the source to the break?

I believe so, but the way the Network structured allows for easy diagnosis.

Post by NY
In other words, will BTOR still be able to fix line faults as quickly as
they can with copper? Or will phone and internet generally be down for
longer once people go to FTTP?

I think so, because the network is structured for easy repair..

https://www.draytek.co.uk/information/blog/gpon-fibre-fttp-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work

<tiny url https://tinyurl.com/4h7pbh3f >

When my house in Spain when the cable was cut it was fixed the same day.

Dave

[grinch]

Post by NY
How easy is it to maintain a fibre connection if the cable gets damaged
by something? If a tree falls on a copper drop cable between pole and
house, or an underground cable gets damaged, the wires can be joined by
a simple screw-block junction box. Not possible with fibre. Is the aim
with fibre that only the drop cable will be replaced, with a precision
splice up a pole, or will they try to replace the whole fibre from house
back to repeater box (maybe green cabinet)?

BTOR replace drop cables copper or fibre when faulty.They always have
when I have reported them to them.

Post by NY
How easy is it to locate a fault in a fibre where the break could be
anywhere over the green-cab-to-house length. Is there an equivalent of
the technique with copper that they can look for the time delay in
echoes from the source to the break?

Simple you use an OTDR for fibre and a TDR for copper.

Post by NY
In other words, will BTOR still be able to fix line faults as quickly as
they can with copper? Or will phone and internet generally be down for
longer once people go to FTTP?

From 18 years professional networking experience faults tend to be a
great deal less with fibre and fixing them is just as simple but
requires more expensive tools and training. The main fault causes with
fibre are people with diggers and spades.

Given all the advantages of fibre I can see why BTOR are keen to get rid
of copper.

I would think once they have turned off the PSTN in 2025 they will start
an aggressive plan of action to get rid of copper.

As the "local loop" there is nothing copper can do the fibre cant do
much better.Copper is a 19th century technology fibre is a 21 century
technology.Also it has no scrap metal value so not worth stealing.

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by grinch

Post by NY
How easy is it to maintain a fibre connection if the cable gets damaged
by something? If a tree falls on a copper drop cable between pole and
house, or an underground cable gets damaged, the wires can be joined by
a simple screw-block junction box. Not possible with fibre. Is the aim
with fibre that only the drop cable will be replaced, with a precision
splice up a pole, or will they try to replace the whole fibre from house
back to repeater box (maybe green cabinet)?

BTOR replace drop cables copper or fibre when faulty.They always have
when I have reported them to them.

Post by NY
How easy is it to locate a fault in a fibre where the break could be
anywhere over the green-cab-to-house length. Is there an equivalent of
the technique with copper that they can look for the time delay in
echoes from the source to the break?

Simple you use an OTDR for fibre and a TDR for copper.

Post by NY
In other words, will BTOR still be able to fix line faults as quickly as
they can with copper? Or will phone and internet generally be down for
longer once people go to FTTP?

From 18 years professional networking experience faults tend to be a
great deal less with fibre and fixing them is just as simple but
requires more expensive tools and training. The main fault causes with
fibre are people with diggers and spades.
Given all the advantages of fibre I can see why BTOR are keen to get rid
of copper.
I would think once they have turned off the PSTN in 2025 they will start
an aggressive plan of action to get rid of copper.
As the "local loop" there is nothing copper can do the fibre cant do
much better.Copper is a 19th century technology fibre is a 21 century
technology.Also it has no scrap metal value so not worth stealing.

There are a few things that you can't do with fibre.
One is having an unpowered device (i.e. not plugged into a local
supply) that, as soon as it goes off-hook, the exchange can tell and do
something about it. Think a hotline, for example.

[Graham J]

Rupert Moss-Eccardt wrote:

[snip]

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
There are a few things that you can't do with fibre.
One is having an unpowered device (i.e. not plugged into a local
supply) that, as soon as it goes off-hook, the exchange can tell and do
something about it. Think a hotline, for example.

I suspect that when an ONT loses power the kit at the exchange end knows
this, and could flag up a fault indication. This could be useful
information if communicated to the electricity supply people.

While not the same as the householder being able to ring for help during
a power failure, it would allow for automated fault reporting and repair.

For granny living on her own who has a "panic alarm" that alarm still
needs electrical power, so an ONT and router run from a UPS (or with
internal battery backup) would meet her safety needs.

Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

Rod.

[Chris Green]

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

[Graham J]

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
reports when is performance has dropped below a set standard. I imagine
the test takes the maximum rated current for a few seconds and measures
the internal impedance of the battery.

This feature could be built into a router or ONT.

Of course, some of the storms we've had in the UK have cut power for up
to 10 days, and a UPS won't cope with that on its own. But then,
neither will the 48v battery in the telephone exchange, or whatever is
used to power a mobile base-station - as we saw.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

Post by Graham J
A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
reports when is performance has dropped below a set standard.  I imagine
the test takes the maximum rated current for a few seconds and measures
the internal impedance of the battery.

Thats one way of putting it ... although I think it just places a
calibrated test load across the battery terminals, waits for a short
period and then measures the voltage to see how far it has collapsed.

"Smart" battery chargers do something similar

I guess it all amounts to the same thing

[Chris Green]

Post by Abandoned_Trolley

Post by Graham J
A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
reports when is performance has dropped below a set standard.  I imagine
the test takes the maximum rated current for a few seconds and measures
the internal impedance of the battery.

Thats one way of putting it ... although I think it just places a
calibrated test load across the battery terminals, waits for a short
period and then measures the voltage to see how far it has collapsed.
"Smart" battery chargers do something similar
I guess it all amounts to the same thing

... and none of it helps unless someone monitors the result of the
test.

[Chris Green]

Post by Graham J

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and
reports when is performance has dropped below a set standard. I imagine
the test takes the maximum rated current for a few seconds and measures
the internal impedance of the battery.

Reports to where? That's the problem. I guess it could sound a very
load alarm if it thinks the battery is failing.

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement.  A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and reports
when is performance has dropped below a set standard.

A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement.  A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and reports
when is performance has dropped below a set standard.

A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.

True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
will have to use your own.

Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.

Rod.

[NY]

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and reports
when is performance has dropped below a set standard.

A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.

True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
will have to use your own.
Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.

It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...

[Andy Burns]

Post by NY
It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn
off their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged
in, so you can't use those as a UPS.

This sort of thing should run a router ...

<https://www.eaton.com/ke/en-gb/skuPage.3SM36B.specifications.html>

[Tweed]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by NY
It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn
off their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged
in, so you can't use those as a UPS.

This sort of thing should run a router ...
<https://www.eaton.com/ke/en-gb/skuPage.3SM36B.specifications.html>

What is needed is an easy to reach switch. You don’t want the battery/UPS
running down just keeping the kit running if you aren’t using it. If you
have to make that Vital Call (TM), turn on switch, wait one minute for
things to boot, then call.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tweed

Post by Andy Burns
This sort of thing should run a router ...
<https://www.eaton.com/ke/en-gb/skuPage.3SM36B.specifications.html>

What is needed is an easy to reach switch.

It has one, most(?) routers have one too.

Post by Tweed
You don’t want the battery/UPS
running down just keeping the kit running if you aren’t using it. If you
have to make that Vital Call (TM), turn on switch, wait one minute for
things to boot, then call.

with a small battery yes.

[Tweed]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed

Post by Andy Burns
This sort of thing should run a router ...
<https://www.eaton.com/ke/en-gb/skuPage.3SM36B.specifications.html>

What is needed is an easy to reach switch.

It has one, most(?) routers have one too.

Post by Tweed
You don’t want the battery/UPS
running down just keeping the kit running if you aren’t using it. If you
have to make that Vital Call (TM), turn on switch, wait one minute for
things to boot, then call.

with a small battery yes.

You need to power the ONT as well as the router, so a switch that powers
both.

[BrightsideS9]

Post by NY

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and reports
when is performance has dropped below a set standard.

A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.

True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
will have to use your own.
Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.

It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...

Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?

[Tweed]

Post by BrightsideS9

Post by NY

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and reports
when is performance has dropped below a set standard.

A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.

True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
will have to use your own.
Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.

It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...

Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3

Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.

It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.

[MikeS]

Post by Tweed

Post by BrightsideS9

Post by NY

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement. A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and reports
when is performance has dropped below a set standard.

A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.

True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
will have to use your own.
Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.

It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...

Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.

Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
it. Not what most people want with a UPS.

[David Wade]

Post by MikeS

Post by Tweed

Post by BrightsideS9

Post by NY

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement.  A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and reports
when is performance has dropped below a set standard.

A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.

True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
will have to use your own.
Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.

It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...

Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.

Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
it.

Usually you will already have two such adaptors powering the existing
router and ONT, why would I want a third?

Post by MikeS
Not what most people want with a UPS.

No I would much prefer one in White....

Dave

[Tweed]

Post by David Wade

Post by MikeS

Post by Tweed

Post by BrightsideS9

Post by NY

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Chris Green

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

You can get a low voltage UPS for exactly this purpose. Search for
'UPS' on Amazon and you'll see a few to choose from.

However people notice when their mobile battery needs recharging
and/or replacement.  A router or ONT is likely to be neglected until
the power actually fails at which point it's a bit late to discover
that the UPS battery is dead.

A UPS generally tests its battery regularly - perhaps daily - and reports
when is performance has dropped below a set standard.

A cheap UPS from Amazon may not do that. DAMHIK.

True. If you buy technology that doesn't include any intelligence, you
will have to use your own.
Just like people used to do before the clever stuff was invented.

It's a shame that USB batteries (like 3000 mAhr one that I have) turn off
their output power as soon as a mains-to-USB power supply is plugged in, so
you can't use those as a UPS. Of course, it depends whether the battery
would be damaged by being left permanently on charge...

Doesn't 'passthrough' solve this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.

Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
it.

Usually you will already have two such adaptors powering the existing
router and ONT, why would I want a third?

Post by MikeS
Not what most people want with a UPS.

No I would much prefer one in White....
Dave

The point was there are solutions to the alleged difficulties, other than a
continuation of a low voltage distribution network for the occasional rare
use.

[Java Jive]

Post by Tweed

Post by David Wade

Post by MikeS

Post by Tweed
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.

Yeahbut, it's this one you linked, see below ...

Post by Tweed

Post by David Wade

Post by MikeS
Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
it.

Well, actually, not necessarily, the diagrams make it clear that you
insert it between your existing router's PSU and the router itself, so
the idea seems to be to use your existing router's PSU to power it,
which is a neat idea, but ...

?! Do all existing routers use the same voltage, current, & polarity
PSU's - I've no idea, but I doubt it ?!

?! The diagrams further suggest you can run up to three devices
simultaneously - not from a single device's PSU you can't ?!

So while your criticism is wrong as stated, I think its implications are
entirely correct.

I like the idea of the device, but I think it needs to have its own PSU
rated to be able to be able to support the maximum number of devices
that can be connected to it.

I'd also be interested to know whether inside it has standard batteries
that can easily be replaced.

Post by Tweed

Post by David Wade
Usually you will already have two such adaptors powering the existing
router and ONT, why would I want a third?

See above.

Post by Tweed
The point was there are solutions to the alleged difficulties, other than a
continuation of a low voltage distribution network for the occasional rare
use.

I'm not quite convinced that particular model is quite the solution its
blurb claims it to be, but there may be others that are.

[Tweed]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Tweed

Post by David Wade

Post by MikeS

Post by Tweed
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3
Buy two. Fit one as intended and have the second one with no load, so you
can manually fit it in the event of a very long power cut.
It’s the first one I found. Doubtless there are/will be others.

Yeahbut, it's this one you linked, see below ...

Post by Tweed

Post by David Wade

Post by MikeS
Its cheap and from Amazon but you have to supply a 12v DC adapter to use
it.

Well, actually, not necessarily, the diagrams make it clear that you
insert it between your existing router's PSU and the router itself, so
the idea seems to be to use your existing router's PSU to power it,
which is a neat idea, but ...
?! Do all existing routers use the same voltage, current, & polarity
PSU's - I've no idea, but I doubt it ?!
?! The diagrams further suggest you can run up to three devices
simultaneously - not from a single device's PSU you can't ?!
So while your criticism is wrong as stated, I think its implications are
entirely correct.
I like the idea of the device, but I think it needs to have its own PSU
rated to be able to be able to support the maximum number of devices
that can be connected to it.
I'd also be interested to know whether inside it has standard batteries
that can easily be replaced.

Post by Tweed

Post by David Wade
Usually you will already have two such adaptors powering the existing
router and ONT, why would I want a third?

See above.

Post by Tweed
The point was there are solutions to the alleged difficulties, other than a
continuation of a low voltage distribution network for the occasional rare
use.

I'm not quite convinced that particular model is quite the solution its
blurb claims it to be, but there may be others that are.

The device has its issues, but the market will supply more variants as time
goes by. This, or a similar model, had a review by a chap in Ukraine where
power failures are a real issue.

If you are very worried about extended power failures you can swap out the
mains adapter with a bigger battery, even a camping leisure battery, during
the initial internal battery run time. That’s not so easily done with a
conventional UPS.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

 ?!  Do all existing routers use the same voltage, current, & polarity
PSU's - I've no idea, but I doubt it ?!

no - and a significant number of them (I have seen a few DLink models)
use AC - AC adaptors which are alarmingly (physically) compatible with
DC models.

I have a selection of 5, 9 and 12 volt models from other makers too

[Andy Burns]

Post by Graham J
Given that a mobile phone contains a battery, I can't see why a router
or ONT should not also contain a battery.

Many routers have a supercapacitor to allow then to send a "dying gasp"
message to the other end.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
There are a few things that you can't do with fibre.
One is having an unpowered device (i.e. not plugged into a local
supply) that, as soon as it goes off-hook, the exchange can tell and do
something about it.  Think a hotline, for example.

I suspect that when an ONT loses power the kit at the exchange end
knows this, and could flag up a fault indication.  This could be
useful information if communicated to the electricity supply people.

Not for a single dwelling, too much scope for a false flag (ONT being
unplugged for a vaccy etc)

However, simultaneous failure of two or more, would be very useful.....

[Davey]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 11:38:01 +0100

Post by David Wade

Post by Graham J

Post by Davey
My friends in Halesworth, Suffolk, report that their Sky broadband
has been having big signal problems. Also, their mobiles, not Sky,
are also having major signal losses. Sky sent a replacement
router, which did no good at all, and they couldn't talk to the
folks in the house, as the mobile signal was out. Their neighbours
report similar problems on several broadband and mobile networks.
It is as though there is a huge Faraday cage plonked over the town.
A great advert for the end of POTS!

A Faraday cage would not affect POTS.
How long has this been going on for?
The only rational solution for a POTS replacement is FTTP - but we
all kwnow it will be VoIP over ADSL or VDSL broadband for many
years to come!

Pretty sure BT wants to roll out real fibre as fast as possible, Its
already available in parts of Halesworth..
https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAHSW

Post by Graham J
And 2G/3G/4G/5G will never serve all areas or all users - partly
because it's shared spectrum, and partly because it doesn't go
through walls.

.. and partly because no one wants a mast 100 yards away from their house...
Dave

It is reported that there was (is?) no Vodaphone signal in much of
Halesworth this morning. It sounds maybe like a mast failure, if not
more.

[Davey]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 11:38:01 +0100

Post by David Wade

Post by Graham J

Post by Davey
My friends in Halesworth, Suffolk, report that their Sky broadband
has been having big signal problems. Also, their mobiles, not Sky,
are also having major signal losses. Sky sent a replacement
router, which did no good at all, and they couldn't talk to the
folks in the house, as the mobile signal was out. Their neighbours
report similar problems on several broadband and mobile networks.
It is as though there is a huge Faraday cage plonked over the town.
A great advert for the end of POTS!

A Faraday cage would not affect POTS.
How long has this been going on for?
The only rational solution for a POTS replacement is FTTP - but we
all kwnow it will be VoIP over ADSL or VDSL broadband for many
years to come!

Pretty sure BT wants to roll out real fibre as fast as possible, Its
already available in parts of Halesworth..
https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAHSW

Post by Graham J
And 2G/3G/4G/5G will never serve all areas or all users - partly
because it's shared spectrum, and partly because it doesn't go
through walls.

.. and partly because no one wants a mast 100 yards away from their house...
Dave

I have another theory. It is that the Russians, or Chinese, or both,
are using Halesworth to try out their cyber chaos plans for the UK's
infrastructure.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

Post by Davey
I have another theory. It is that the Russians, or Chinese, or both,
are using Halesworth to try out their cyber chaos plans for the UK's
infrastructure.

do you think they will be turning all the road signs around the wrong
way too ?

[Davey]

On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 22:33:24 +0100

Post by Abandoned_Trolley

Post by Davey
I have another theory. It is that the Russians, or Chinese, or both,
are using Halesworth to try out their cyber chaos plans for the UK's
infrastructure.

do you think they will be turning all the road signs around the wrong
way too ?

Only if they have remote directional control. Some in the area are
already facing the wrong way anyway, so we won't know!