Digital Phone line

[RayG]

Hi,

Having been switched to digital whilst I still have to 100% confirm that the
following is true but wondered if anyone else has seen this.

If I make or receive a call if something else (like e-mail) accesses the
internet it appears to cause the call to fail. Either speech in one direction is
lost or the whole call drops.

I would have suspected that QoS would have played a part in this (if it is
required) to keep the call packets going above all other traffic.

Thoughts?

Thanks

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by RayG
Hi,
Having been switched to digital whilst I still have to 100% confirm that
the following is true but wondered if anyone else has seen this.
If I make or receive a call if something else (like e-mail) accesses the
internet it appears to cause the call to fail. Either speech in one
direction is lost or the whole call drops.
I would have suspected that QoS would have played a part in this (if it is
required) to keep the call packets going above all other traffic.
Thoughts?

I have BT digital voice, am permanently accessing the internet during the
day, and have never had calls fail.

[Andy Burns]

Post by RayG
Having been switched to digital

who is/are your broadband and voice provider(s)?

assuming you're still using your same analogue phone, what does it plug
into now?

[Theo]

Post by RayG
Hi,
Having been switched to digital whilst I still have to 100% confirm that
the following is true but wondered if anyone else has seen this.
If I make or receive a call if something else (like e-mail) accesses the
internet it appears to cause the call to fail. Either speech in one
direction is lost or the whole call drops.
I would have suspected that QoS would have played a part in this (if it is
required) to keep the call packets going above all other traffic.

The router should do QoS, yes, although it only really matters if the
connection is congested. VOIP can work down to only slightly better than
dialup modem speeds, so it doesn't need a lot of bandwidth.

Questions:
1. What up/down broadband speeds do you get?
2. Are you using the ISP provided router or some other arrangement?
3. Was the link busy when you were making phone calls, eg
downloading/uploading something large?

Theo

[RayG]

Post by RayG
Hi,
Having been switched to digital whilst I still have to 100% confirm that the
following is true but wondered if anyone else has seen this.
If I make or receive a call if something else (like e-mail) accesses the
internet it appears to cause the call to fail. Either speech in one direction is
lost or the whole call drops.
I would have suspected that QoS would have played a part in this (if it is
required) to keep the call packets going above all other traffic.
Thoughts?
Thanks

Seems like there may be a problem on the wires (I have FTTC) - engineer booked
for tomorrow - we will see.

[RayG]

Post by RayG
Seems like there may be a problem on the wires (I have FTTC) - engineer booked
for tomorrow - we will see.

Engineer came and found an issue.

It seems that originally when you went to Digital Phone it was OK to leave "the
wires" (somewhere) connected to the exchange, these originally supplied the
landline.

It now seems that this can cause issues with speed/stability of the BB and the
connection was duly removed from wherever.

Net result was:

1). the BB speed has increased slightly.

Downstream sync speed: 72.07 Mbps
Upstream sync speed: 19.15 Mbps

2). the first phone call we made to check dropped outgoing speech after 21 minutes.

So there is still an issue somewhere.

ISP is BT/EE and phone is a Gigaset SL450A GO never had an issue before the
switch to Digital.

It is also possible to register the phone with the HUB but my initial tests
(still need to do more) show that doing this runs down the battery in the phone
if it is off its charging cradle at a great rate of knots.

[Graham J]

Post by RayG

Post by RayG
Seems like there may be a problem on the wires (I have FTTC) -
engineer booked for tomorrow - we will see.

Engineer came and found an issue.
It seems that originally when you went to Digital Phone it was OK to
leave "the wires" (somewhere) connected to the exchange, these
originally supplied the landline.
It now seems that this can cause issues with speed/stability of the BB
and the connection was duly removed from wherever.
1). the BB speed has increased slightly.
Downstream sync speed: 72.07 Mbps
  Upstream sync speed: 19.15 Mbps
2). the first phone call we made to check dropped outgoing speech after 21 minutes.
So there is still an issue somewhere.
ISP is BT/EE and phone is a Gigaset SL450A GO never had an issue before
the switch to Digital.
It is also possible to register the phone with the HUB but my initial
tests (still need to do more) show that doing this runs down the battery
in the phone if it is off its charging cradle at a great rate of knots.

FTTC uses VDSL which is distributed from a nearby green cabinet. It is
marginally more reliable than ADSL simply because the copper pair runs
only to the cabinet. But it potentially suffers from all the same
faults - mixed copper and aluminium wires, bad or corroded joints,
electrical interference from lightning, electric fences, Christmas tree
lights, and the like. Having the copper pair going back from the
cabinet to the exchange may well increase noise problems, so it makes
sens that these were disconnected by the visiting technician.

So your internet connection may drop and reconnect at any time, taking
about a minute to do so. For web browsing and the like you would never
notice.

I assume by "Digital Phone" you mean that it uses VoIP - yes?

Does that mean you have the Gigaset SL450A GO base unit connected by
Ethernet cable to a router? You don't say what model of router.

Alternatively is the Gigaset SL450A GO base unit connected via a
traditional telephone cable to a BT phone socket in the router (perhaps
via an adapter)?

If there is any break or unreliability in the broadband connection the
VoIP service can stop working, and it may take several minutes to reconnect.

However if it "dropped outgoing speech" did it maintain incoming speech?
If so there is something suspicious happening.

Don't understand "register the phone with the HUB". What is this HUB?
Do you mean the phone handset or the base station?

Please connect a computer to your router and find out how long the
broadband connection has been up. You could leave it monitoring for
reliability.

[RayG]

FTTC uses VDSL which is distributed from a nearby green cabinet.  It is
marginally more reliable than ADSL simply because the copper pair runs only to
the cabinet.  But it potentially suffers from all the same faults - mixed copper
and aluminium wires, bad or corroded joints, electrical interference from
lightning, electric fences, Christmas tree lights, and the like.  Having the
copper pair going back from the cabinet to the exchange may well increase noise
problems, so it makes sens that these were disconnected by the visiting technician.
So your internet connection may drop and reconnect at any time, taking about a
minute to do so.  For web browsing and the like you would never notice.
I assume by "Digital Phone" you mean that it uses VoIP - yes?

I mean landline converted to digital so VOIP yes

Does that mean you have the Gigaset SL450A GO base unit connected by Ethernet
cable to a router?  You don't say what model of router.

Is connected to the Green Digital telephone socket on the router(hub) for the phone

It is also connected via an Ethernet cable to the router(hub) to obtain S/W
updates etc.

Router is supplied by EE.

Alternatively is the Gigaset SL450A GO base unit connected via a traditional
telephone cable to a BT phone socket in the router (perhaps via an adapter)?

as above

If there is any break or unreliability in the broadband connection the VoIP
service can stop working, and it may take several minutes to reconnect.

Possibly monitoring at this time

Network uptime: 1 Day 14 Hrs 31 Mins
System uptime: 1 Day 14 Hrs 33 Mins

So long at the time difference remains at 2 mins its been 100% up.

However if it "dropped outgoing speech" did it maintain incoming speech?  If so
there is something suspicious happening.

Incoming speech is maintained

Don't understand "register the phone with the HUB".  What is this HUB? Do you
mean the phone handset or the base station?

With a DECT phone you can register to more than one base. HUB = Router = EE's
router You can switch between bases as required.

Please connect a computer to your router and find out how long the broadband
connection has been up.  You could leave it monitoring for reliability.

As above.

Page is monitored and checked every 24 hours.
I hope that clarifies things.

[Graham J]

RayG wrote:

[snip]

Post by RayG

Post by Graham J
Does that mean you have the Gigaset SL450A GO base unit connected by
Ethernet cable to a router?  You don't say what model of router.

Is connected to the Green Digital telephone socket on the router(hub) for the phone
It is also connected via an Ethernet cable to the router(hub) to obtain
S/W updates etc.
Router is supplied by EE.

Make and model of router please?

The green phone socket on your router delivers an analog sognal and
nominally 50vdc to a conventional corded phone. The Gigaset SL450A GO
base unit is emulating a conventional phone.

The router contains the VoIP conversion mechanism, and your phone
service provider knows how to send the digital phone call to it. This
is almost certainly a proprietary mechanism.

The only reason you need the Gigaset SL450A GO is to provide the DECT
capability and handset. It is not being used for its VoIP capability.

To test further, disconnect and power off the Gigaset SL450A GO base
unit and its associated handset.

Plug simple corded phone (available for a few quid from Currys or the
like) into the green socket on the router.

Test incoming and outgoing calls using this simple phone. If you ever
lose the connection, or it becomes one-sided: complain to your phone
service provider.

If this does not resolve the problem, you could port your phone number
to a different VoIP provider (Voipfone has been well recommended here).
You then unplug the Gigaset SL450A GO base unit from the green socket on
the router, and configure it with the details provided by your newly
chosen VoIP provider. Leave it plugged into the router using the
Ethernet cable. You should then be able to make and receive phone calls.
Your chosen VoIP provider should be able to diagnose the problem if
calls become one-sided.

[Chris Green]

Post by Graham J
So your internet connection may drop and reconnect at any time, taking
about a minute to do so. For web browsing and the like you would never
notice.

I'd certainly notice a minute outage when web browsing!

[Andy Burns]

FTTC uses VDSL which is distributed from a nearby green cabinet.  It is
marginally more reliable than ADSL

You always have a downer on VDSL ... for me (and I suspect plenty of
others) it is *fantastically* more reliable than ADSL.

So your internet connection may drop and reconnect at any time, taking
about a minute to do so.  For web browsing and the like you would never
notice.

If you were browsing, or streaming video at the time you'd notice a
minute, but probaby not a few seconds.

Please connect a computer to your router and find out how long the
broadband connection has been up.  You could leave it monitoring for
reliability.

Get the trial version of pingplotter, leave it recording a ping once
every seconds to something "out there" that won't notice a bit of
bandwidth being used.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Andy Burns

FTTC uses VDSL which is distributed from a nearby green cabinet.  It
is marginally more reliable than ADSL

You always have a downer on VDSL ... for me (and I suspect plenty of
others) it is *fantastically* more reliable than ADSL.

My experience too. I had 9 years worth of a 1km+ VDSL line at our last
house, it was absolutely fine, and way better than the 5km+ ADSL service
that I endured in the 00s.

At present I've had 3.5 years of an 80 metre VDSL line, (though
touch-wood) a solid 80/20 sync, and real world 70+ download speeds.

I would have had an uptime of 21 months by now, if I hadn't have
switched off the ring main to fit a spur socket last month !

[Graham J]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Andy Burns

FTTC uses VDSL which is distributed from a nearby green cabinet.  It
is marginally more reliable than ADSL

You always have a downer on VDSL ... for me (and I suspect plenty of
others) it is *fantastically* more reliable than ADSL.

My experience too. I had 9 years worth of a 1km+ VDSL line at our last
house, it was absolutely fine, and way better than the 5km+ ADSL service
that I endured in the 00s.
At present I've had 3.5 years of an 80 metre VDSL line, (though
touch-wood) a solid 80/20 sync, and real world 70+ download speeds.
I would have had an uptime of 21 months by now, if I hadn't have
switched off the ring main to fit a spur socket last month !

Some people have all the luck!

My ADSL over about 6 km would re-sync about once per day, never at the
same time. Speed was about 2 Mbits/sec down, 800 kbits/sec up.

When upgraded to VDSL to a green cabinet 1.1km away it improved (maybe
marginally is a bit strong - it definitely improved) - it would re-sync
perhaps once every couple of weeks, again without any sort of pattern.
Speed was about 22 Mbits/sec down, 2 Mbits/sec up.

I've had FTTP since 6 March this year. Re-sync of course does not
happen, but the PPPoE connection has dropped and reconnected 3 times
since then, which takes about 4 seconds. Probably this is caused by
something in the Openreach system ... I would never have noticed other
than syslog records it.

[Woody]

Post by Graham J

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Andy Burns

FTTC uses VDSL which is distributed from a nearby green cabinet.  It
is marginally more reliable than ADSL

You always have a downer on VDSL ... for me (and I suspect plenty of
others) it is *fantastically* more reliable than ADSL.

My experience too. I had 9 years worth of a 1km+ VDSL line at our last
house, it was absolutely fine, and way better than the 5km+ ADSL
service that I endured in the 00s.
At present I've had 3.5 years of an 80 metre VDSL line, (though
touch-wood) a solid 80/20 sync, and real world 70+ download speeds.
I would have had an uptime of 21 months by now, if I hadn't have
switched off the ring main to fit a spur socket last month !

Some people have all the luck!
My ADSL over about 6 km would re-sync about once per day, never at the
same time.  Speed was about 2 Mbits/sec down, 800 kbits/sec up.
When upgraded to VDSL to a green cabinet 1.1km away it improved (maybe
marginally is a bit strong - it definitely improved) - it would re-sync
perhaps once every couple of weeks, again without any sort of pattern.
Speed was about 22 Mbits/sec down, 2 Mbits/sec up.
I've had FTTP since 6 March this year.  Re-sync of course does not
happen, but the PPPoE connection has dropped and reconnected 3 times
since then, which takes about 4 seconds.  Probably this is caused by
something in the Openreach system ... I would never have noticed other
than syslog records it.

Get this one. We are caravanners and we often stay at a farm site in
East Somerset. The farm has four landlines which all run from the same
building in the same cable and for the same distance (2908m reportedly),
but one line is rated 6Mb but actually does more like 5.5, one line is
rated 2.5Mb but gets just under that, and the remaining two are rated
1.8Mb of which one does about 1.5 and the other about 1.2 albeit on a
good day - in bad weather either/both can be less than 512kb! BT have
never been able to resolve the poor performance.

The farmer has now abandoned the two slow lines and uses cellular
instead to provide wi-fi for the campers. There is a VF+O2 4G site on a
pylon about 600m west of his farmhouse, and a small 3 tower (15m?) which
carries 3 and EE about 1.1km to the east. Both are line of sight but for
some reason whilst EE does 4G, Three have chosen not to provide 4G on
that site.

There is fibre down the main road at the end of his ¼ mile access road
to feed the next village. He asked his BT salesperson if they could have
fibre and if it was going to be difficult if BT supplied the kit
(underground pipe and fibre tube) he and his son would happily install
it. BT, surprisingly, agreed and the pipe, a couple of access chambers,
and the fibre tube were duly delivered. Then nothing happened. He
contacted BT who said they had decided they couldn't do it so they
recovered the fibre tube but left everything else!

I wonder what is going to happen when the cable is replaced with fibre??

[Graham J]

Woody wrote:

[snip]

Post by Woody
I wonder what is going to happen when the cable is replaced with fibre??

My friend near Holbeach has an analog phone line but it is too long even
for ADSL. He reports:

"We have had extended talks with both Openreach and BT. As a result we
have been assured that there was no chance of connection to any digital
pathway but that our copper line would remain available even after the
general cut off date. "

... Needless to say, this isn't in writing!

You've posted about this farmer before.

Given his 4 lines, it would be cheaper for him to cancel them all and
get satellite. Recently I saw a system from Starlink: about £300 for
the kit and £75 per month thereafter. This is for a farm, so the
necessary cherrypicker to erect the antenna is no problem.

Ths Starlink router is horrible! LAN is WiFi and you need to buy an
adapter to get a single Ethernet port. Has a DHCP server but no
mechanism to manage it. I suspect Starlink uses CGNAT so as discussed
here it may be worth paying for the L2TP service from A&A in order to
get a static public IPv4 address.

For the voice phone service, he could get Voipfone or similar.