Duct size for fibre

[Tim+]

I mentioned before that my daughter is having trouble getting fibre to
their house because they had a resin bonded driveway done shortly after
Cityfibre had been along and put their access “toby” in the pavement
outside their house. It seems that this is a barrier to putting a duct in
that ISPs and City fibre don’t feel motivated to do anything about.


I’m tempted to attempt a bit of oblique drilling beneath the drive from the
toby to reach a nearby flower bed where I can dig down to where the drill
would emerge. Obviously I’d need to put in something to feed the fibre
through so I’m wondering about suitable ducting. Would garden hosepipe
suffice or would I need something bigger? Would fibre installers balk at a
“non-standard” bit of ducting?

Tim

[Abandoned_Trolley]

Post by Tim+
I mentioned before that my daughter is having trouble getting fibre to
their house because they had a resin bonded driveway done shortly after
Cityfibre had been along and put their access “toby” in the pavement
outside their house. It seems that this is a barrier to putting a duct in
that ISPs and City fibre don’t feel motivated to do anything about.
I’m tempted to attempt a bit of oblique drilling beneath the drive from the
toby to reach a nearby flower bed where I can dig down to where the drill
would emerge. Obviously I’d need to put in something to feed the fibre
through so I’m wondering about suitable ducting. Would garden hosepipe
suffice or would I need something bigger? Would fibre installers balk at a
“non-standard” bit of ducting?
Tim

I think you can still get hold of some flexible ribbed hose / duct stuff
which used to be called "Kopex" ?


Or have a look at
https://www.screwfix.com/p/adaptaflex-flexible-conduit-25mm-x-10m-grey/95125

[Mark Carver]

Post by Tim+
I mentioned before that my daughter is having trouble getting fibre to
their house because they had a resin bonded driveway done shortly after
Cityfibre had been along and put their access “toby” in the pavement
outside their house. It seems that this is a barrier to putting a duct in
that ISPs and City fibre don’t feel motivated to do anything about.
I’m tempted to attempt a bit of oblique drilling beneath the drive from the
toby to reach a nearby flower bed where I can dig down to where the drill
would emerge. Obviously I’d need to put in something to feed the fibre
through so I’m wondering about suitable ducting. Would garden hosepipe
suffice or would I need something bigger? Would fibre installers balk at a
“non-standard” bit of ducting?
Tim

Get the real stuff, grey 54mm 'Telecom' ducting. (Or green (I think)
54mm if it's an 'Alt Net')

Available from multiple sources (legitimately)

Here's an example
https://store.jdpipes.co.uk/telecoms-bt-ducting/

[Tweed]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Tim+
I mentioned before that my daughter is having trouble getting fibre to
their house because they had a resin bonded driveway done shortly after
Cityfibre had been along and put their access “toby” in the pavement
outside their house. It seems that this is a barrier to putting a duct in
that ISPs and City fibre don’t feel motivated to do anything about.
I’m tempted to attempt a bit of oblique drilling beneath the drive from the
toby to reach a nearby flower bed where I can dig down to where the drill
would emerge. Obviously I’d need to put in something to feed the fibre
through so I’m wondering about suitable ducting. Would garden hosepipe
suffice or would I need something bigger? Would fibre installers balk at a
“non-standard” bit of ducting?
Tim

Get the real stuff, grey 54mm 'Telecom' ducting. (Or green (I think)
54mm if it's an 'Alt Net')
Available from multiple sources (legitimately)
Here's an example
https://store.jdpipes.co.uk/telecoms-bt-ducting/

Cityfibre use purple ducting, despite it allegedly being used for motorway
use.

[Tim+]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Tim+
I mentioned before that my daughter is having trouble getting fibre to
their house because they had a resin bonded driveway done shortly after
Cityfibre had been along and put their access “toby” in the pavement
outside their house. It seems that this is a barrier to putting a duct in
that ISPs and City fibre don’t feel motivated to do anything about.
I’m tempted to attempt a bit of oblique drilling beneath the drive from the
toby to reach a nearby flower bed where I can dig down to where the drill
would emerge. Obviously I’d need to put in something to feed the fibre
through so I’m wondering about suitable ducting. Would garden hosepipe
suffice or would I need something bigger? Would fibre installers balk at a
“non-standard” bit of ducting?
Tim

Get the real stuff, grey 54mm 'Telecom' ducting. (Or green (I think)
54mm if it's an 'Alt Net')
Available from multiple sources (legitimately)
Here's an example
https://store.jdpipes.co.uk/telecoms-bt-ducting/

That would require serious drilling or trenching, neither of which I want
to do underneath a resin bonded driveway. A 4ft long drill might be hard
to find and and even assuming I could get a suitable size drill, if then
have the problem of pulling it through. Hence why I’m asking if some thing
smaller and smooth sided like hosepipe would work.

I’m hopeful that perhaps a length of rebar could be hammered through and
then pulled back with a hose attached.

Tim

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tim+

Post by Mark Carver
https://store.jdpipes.co.uk/telecoms-bt-ducting/

That would require serious drilling or trenchin

Well BT do use pretty wide ducts, 34mm or so?

Post by Tim+
neither of which I want
to do underneath a resin bonded driveway.

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre?
have a peek in their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

[Theo]

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.

The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I know Openreach and
Virgin have documents describing how to make new build sites fibre-ready

BT did (do?) allow you collect ducting from them

[Theo]

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.

CF have some training videos for installers. This is the fibre blow on the
'legacy build' (whatever that means):

It seems like they direct-bury BFT (blown fibre tubing) and then blow fibre
through the middle of it. It's a bit hard to see from the images so it's
possible the BFT is only a sub duct and goes inside a stronger duct.

In the OP's case you would need some of that BFT. If you bury a
hosepipe, they now have to get the BFT down the hosepipe before they can
blown fibre into the BFT. That may just make two problems instead of one.

So the moral of the story is to ask them what is best for their workflow.
Without that we're just guessing, and wrong guesses may make things harder
not easier.

Theo

[Peter Johnson]

On 11 Aug 2023 12:00:27 +0100 (BST), Theo

Post by Theo
CF have some training videos for installers. This is the fibre blow on the
http://youtu.be/tm7KGp4fWSM
It seems like they direct-bury BFT (blown fibre tubing) and then blow fibre
through the middle of it. It's a bit hard to see from the images so it's
possible the BFT is only a sub duct and goes inside a stronger duct.

Here's the scene when my CF fibre was about to be blown in:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=F54F0FD7FB806F48&id=F54F0FD7FB806F48%21570535&parId=F54F0FD7FB806F48%21568439&o=OneUp

The brown tubing was connected to the purple which was pushed through
the BT duct to the pit and then to the adjacent CF cabinet. A
compressor was connected to the 'gun' to blow the fibre through.

[Tim+]

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7

Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Tim

[Jeff Layman]

Post by Tim+

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property? No matter where the tarmac is, if it's inside the edge of the
brick it's on your property, and you can do with it what you wish. How
do you cut into it? I've not seen what gas/electricity/water/cable
people use. I would have assumed a cutting disc would melt the tarmac
and the disc would end up a sticky mess. Do they use a wide
chisel-shaped bit on a pneumatic drill?

As for what you reinstate it with, another piece of whatever is used to
border the end of your drive would seem to be about the right width.
Tarmac patches always seem rather tatty to me.

[Tim+]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Tim+

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property? No matter where the tarmac is, if it's inside the edge of the
brick it's on your property, and you can do with it what you wish.

I’ll use that argument if any busybody argues. ;-)

Post by Jeff Layman
How
do you cut into it? I've not seen what gas/electricity/water/cable
people use. I would have assumed a cutting disc would melt the tarmac
and the disc would end up a sticky mess. Do they use a wide
chisel-shaped bit on a pneumatic drill?

Not sure yet. Depends on how stony it is. May just try a vibrating
multi-tool and a lot of sacrificial blades. Maybe just chisel it.

Post by Jeff Layman
As for what you reinstate it with, another piece of whatever is used to
border the end of your drive would seem to be about the right width.
Tarmac patches always seem rather tatty to me.

I was going to rake out the existing tarmac, pop it in an oven dish, warm
it up and see if I can re-use it.

Tim

[Jeff Layman]

Post by Tim+

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Tim+

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property? No matter where the tarmac is, if it's inside the edge of the
brick it's on your property, and you can do with it what you wish.

I’ll use that argument if any busybody argues. ;-)

You might find this of interest (although it does involve matters north
of the border):
<https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6343302/can-we-cut-tarmac-along-boundary-with-pavement-to-install-edging>

Apart from boundary matters, it also mentions how the pros cut into tarmac.

Post by Tim+

Post by Jeff Layman
How
do you cut into it? I've not seen what gas/electricity/water/cable
people use. I would have assumed a cutting disc would melt the tarmac
and the disc would end up a sticky mess. Do they use a wide
chisel-shaped bit on a pneumatic drill?

Not sure yet. Depends on how stony it is. May just try a vibrating
multi-tool and a lot of sacrificial blades. Maybe just chisel it.

Post by Jeff Layman
As for what you reinstate it with, another piece of whatever is used to
border the end of your drive would seem to be about the right width.
Tarmac patches always seem rather tatty to me.

I was going to rake out the existing tarmac, pop it in an oven dish, warm
it up and see if I can re-use it.

You better not let "The Management" see you using her nice clean oven
for that purpose!

[Tim+]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Tim+

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Tim+

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property? No matter where the tarmac is, if it's inside the edge of the
brick it's on your property, and you can do with it what you wish.

I’ll use that argument if any busybody argues. ;-)

You might find this of interest (although it does involve matters north
<https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6343302/can-we-cut-tarmac-along-boundary-with-pavement-to-install-edging>
Apart from boundary matters, it also mentions how the pros cut into tarmac.

Post by Tim+

Post by Jeff Layman
How
do you cut into it? I've not seen what gas/electricity/water/cable
people use. I would have assumed a cutting disc would melt the tarmac
and the disc would end up a sticky mess. Do they use a wide
chisel-shaped bit on a pneumatic drill?

Not sure yet. Depends on how stony it is. May just try a vibrating
multi-tool and a lot of sacrificial blades. Maybe just chisel it.

Post by Jeff Layman
As for what you reinstate it with, another piece of whatever is used to
border the end of your drive would seem to be about the right width.
Tarmac patches always seem rather tatty to me.

I was going to rake out the existing tarmac, pop it in an oven dish, warm
it up and see if I can re-use it.

You better not let "The Management" see you using her nice clean oven
for that purpose!

I’ll wrap it in foil. She’ll never know. ;-)

Tim

[BrightsideS9]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property? No matter where the tarmac is, if it's inside the edge of the
brick it's on your property, and you can do with it what you wish.

I’ll use that argument if any busybody argues. ;-)

Post by Jeff Layman
How
do you cut into it? I've not seen what gas/electricity/water/cable
people use. I would have assumed a cutting disc would melt the tarmac
and the disc would end up a sticky mess. Do they use a wide
chisel-shaped bit on a pneumatic drill?

Not sure yet. Depends on how stony it is. May just try a vibrating
multi-tool and a lot of sacrificial blades. Maybe just chisel it.

Post by Jeff Layman
As for what you reinstate it with, another piece of whatever is used to
border the end of your drive would seem to be about the right width.
Tarmac patches always seem rather tatty to me.

I was going to rake out the existing tarmac, pop it in an oven dish, warm
it up and see if I can re-use it.

For £10 you can get more than enough cold lay tarmac from Wickes, B&Q
(or Amazon if you are eligible for free delivery and want to pay
double the price from Wickes and B&Q), to fix your chiselling and do a
decent job.

[Tim+]

Post by BrightsideS9

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property? No matter where the tarmac is, if it's inside the edge of the
brick it's on your property, and you can do with it what you wish.

I’ll use that argument if any busybody argues. ;-)

Post by Jeff Layman
How
do you cut into it? I've not seen what gas/electricity/water/cable
people use. I would have assumed a cutting disc would melt the tarmac
and the disc would end up a sticky mess. Do they use a wide
chisel-shaped bit on a pneumatic drill?

Not sure yet. Depends on how stony it is. May just try a vibrating
multi-tool and a lot of sacrificial blades. Maybe just chisel it.

Post by Jeff Layman
As for what you reinstate it with, another piece of whatever is used to
border the end of your drive would seem to be about the right width.
Tarmac patches always seem rather tatty to me.

I was going to rake out the existing tarmac, pop it in an oven dish, warm
it up and see if I can re-use it.

For £10 you can get more than enough cold lay tarmac from Wickes, B&Q
(or Amazon if you are eligible for free delivery and want to pay
double the price from Wickes and B&Q), to fix your chiselling and do a
decent job.

Cold lay stuff never looks the same. I’m hoping that reusing the old stuff
will look better.

Tim

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by BrightsideS9

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property? No matter where the tarmac is, if it's inside the edge of the
brick it's on your property, and you can do with it what you wish.

I’ll use that argument if any busybody argues. ;-)

Post by Jeff Layman
How
do you cut into it? I've not seen what gas/electricity/water/cable
people use. I would have assumed a cutting disc would melt the tarmac
and the disc would end up a sticky mess. Do they use a wide
chisel-shaped bit on a pneumatic drill?

Not sure yet. Depends on how stony it is. May just try a vibrating
multi-tool and a lot of sacrificial blades. Maybe just chisel it.

Post by Jeff Layman
As for what you reinstate it with, another piece of whatever is used to
border the end of your drive would seem to be about the right width.
Tarmac patches always seem rather tatty to me.

I was going to rake out the existing tarmac, pop it in an oven dish, warm
it up and see if I can re-use it.

For £10 you can get more than enough cold lay tarmac from Wickes, B&Q
(or Amazon if you are eligible for free delivery and want to pay
double the price from Wickes and B&Q), to fix your chiselling and do a
decent job.

Cold lay stuff never looks the same. I'm hoping that reusing the old stuff
will look better.

Depending on the age of the binder etc, you might find you are going to
fill your kitchen with carcinogens

[Tim+]

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by BrightsideS9

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by Theo

Do you know of a neighbour who is connected to cityfibre? have a peek in
their toby, round here the virgin fibre duct is about 8mm O/D

If there is a CF crew working nearby, you could ask if you can have an
offcut of their duct. Then you'd have exactly the right materials. I
expect they're set up to blow fibre through a particular diameter of duct
and their setup won't work with a random hosepipe or whatever.
The other option would be to contact CF and say you're a developer doing a
'redevelopment', and ask what they would recommend for new build sites. I
know Openreach and Virgin have documents describing how to make new build
sites fibre-ready, but I can't find any documents for that from CF.
Presumably they can tell you, though.
Theo

Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property? No matter where the tarmac is, if it's inside the edge of the
brick it's on your property, and you can do with it what you wish.

I’ll use that argument if any busybody argues. ;-)

Post by Jeff Layman
How
do you cut into it? I've not seen what gas/electricity/water/cable
people use. I would have assumed a cutting disc would melt the tarmac
and the disc would end up a sticky mess. Do they use a wide
chisel-shaped bit on a pneumatic drill?

Not sure yet. Depends on how stony it is. May just try a vibrating
multi-tool and a lot of sacrificial blades. Maybe just chisel it.

Post by Jeff Layman
As for what you reinstate it with, another piece of whatever is used to
border the end of your drive would seem to be about the right width.
Tarmac patches always seem rather tatty to me.

I was going to rake out the existing tarmac, pop it in an oven dish, warm
it up and see if I can re-use it.

For £10 you can get more than enough cold lay tarmac from Wickes, B&Q
(or Amazon if you are eligible for free delivery and want to pay
double the price from Wickes and B&Q), to fix your chiselling and do a
decent job.

Cold lay stuff never looks the same. I'm hoping that reusing the old stuff
will look better.

Depending on the age of the binder etc, you might find you are going to
fill your kitchen with carcinogens

20 minutes at 160C and there wasn’t even a discernible smell. Enough to
make the tarmac more malleable though.

Tim

[Java Jive]

Post by Jeff Layman
Doesn't the outside of the brick pillar define the border of your
property?

Not necessarily at all. AIUI, the border of a property is defined by a
map which should be part of the deeds. Here in Scotland, there are
various abuses which are quite common ...

A) 'Stealing' of adjoining land by erecting a fence outside the actual
borders of a property. One house I looked at in Kyle Of Lochalsh had
done this.

On the A838 not far from here, there is a barely discernible ruined
croft, all that remains being an overgrown corner of the footings.
Surrounding the site are some very tall beech trees in the shape of two
sides of a rectangle, which, allowing for gaps created by wind felling,
clearly have grown up from what was previously a beech hedge around the
property. The newly erected fence of a neighbouring field crosses
inside this line of the old boundary hedge, apparently 'stealing' some
of the property's land!

B) Theft of public roads ...

There are many sites in Scotland where roads have been rerouted and
their original paths have been 'stolen' by local residents gating them
off. Here are some examples:

1) Kylesku

1950s map showing the old Kylesku ferry and associated roads
superimposed over modern satellite imagery showing the current road and
its bridge, you can use the slider in the left-hand dialog to fade
between the two:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=12&lat=58.26476&lon=-5.06364&layers=10road56&b=1

Google Maps Street View showing the old north approach road gated off
with security cameras:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@58.2635638,-5.0397771,3a,15y,116.4h,77.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0Saup5Y131HaSJa5zYHT9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I visited this site recently and I'm glad to say that the security gate
is open, but the forbidding aspect remains.

2) Shiel Bridge

As above, the same 1950s map over satellite imagery showing how the road
from Shiel Bridge to Glenelg used to go:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=12&lat=57.22407&lon=-5.44521&layers=10road56&b=1

A section of it, too, is now gated off at each end:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.2121526,-5.4162683,3a,37.5y,272.41h,87.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2Aq0opGLb1cbU9DQzMDtWA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.2127651,-5.4204412,3a,37.5y,102.49h,94.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1srKSK9kdzXNunp2r_Ek3G7w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DrKSK9kdzXNunp2r_Ek3G7w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D153.75359%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

I happened to visit this site when I first moved to Scotland, and the
gates were still there, and I have every reason to suppose that they
still are.

3) Ballachulish

The old road along the shoreline under the bridge is gated off by a
private property at the eastern end, but this is not shown in Google Maps.

I've emailed Highland Council twice protesting this behaviour, and never
received an acknowledgement, let alone a human reply.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tim+
Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7

[Tim+]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tim+
Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7

http://youtu.be/uxw_Nc1f_mM

I’m sure it works well in sand. Not so sure about compacted hardcore
though…

Tim

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tim+

Post by Andy Burns
http://youtu.be/uxw_Nc1f_mM

I’m sure it works well in sand. Not so sure about compacted hardcore
though…

Well, you didn't answer the question earlier!

[Tim+]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tim+

Post by Andy Burns
http://youtu.be/uxw_Nc1f_mM

I’m sure it works well in sand. Not so sure about compacted hardcore
though…

Well, you didn't answer the question earlier!

I’ll admit to guessing, but a quick search would suggest that it *should*
be pretty solid base.

Tim

[Theo]

Post by Tim+
Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

For that I'd be tempted to uncover the foundations of the wall the other
side of the gatepost. Then CF can drill through, and run along the fillet
of tarmac that's previously been dug up. They obviously can do tarmac works
since they installed the toby in the first place.

(it's hard to tell from the pic, but which of the fillet and the slice at
the bottom left was them? Does the pavement conduit run parallel to the
houses, or are you a spur that comes in from the road on the left?)

Theo

[Tim+]

Post by Theo

Post by Tim+
Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

For that I'd be tempted to uncover the foundations of the wall the other
side of the gatepost. Then CF can drill through, and run along the fillet
of tarmac that's previously been dug up. They obviously can do tarmac works
since they installed the toby in the first place.

They can, but I suspect that once the toby is installed by the street
cablers, that team bugger off and leave the “house connectors” to do their
bit. The house connectors can’t move a toby or do tarmac.

Now this is just supposition but it’s the only explanation I can think of
for their refusal to move the toby.

Post by Theo
(it's hard to tell from the pic, but which of the fillet and the slice at
the bottom left was them? Does the pavement conduit run parallel to the
houses, or are you a spur that comes in from the road on the left?)

The street fibre just runs parallel along the pavement with T junctions to
every toby.

Tim

[Tim+]

Post by Theo

Post by Tim+
Here’s the problem.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ehr8Lr1L7hKXg52r7
Need to get from the access hatch to the yellow screwdriver. Alas the
tarmac is all part of the public pavement but I think I’ll risk cutting out
a fillet along the front of the drive and then drilling underground near
the gatepost. I’ll put some conduit in and reinstate the tarmac somehow.

For that I'd be tempted to uncover the foundations of the wall the other
side of the gatepost. Then CF can drill through, and run along the fillet
of tarmac that's previously been dug up. They obviously can do tarmac works
since they installed the toby in the first place.
(it's hard to tell from the pic, but which of the fillet and the slice at
the bottom left was them? Does the pavement conduit run parallel to the
houses, or are you a spur that comes in from the road on the left?)
Theo

Fingers crossed this passes muster for the fibre installers.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xi24Nujp9k2xMBEe7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MHUDyp1Ct5B6V7Uz8

Tim

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tim+
Fingers crossed this passes muster for the fibre installers.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xi24Nujp9k2xMBEe7

If you get a picky one, they might moan about bend-radius for the fibre?

[Tim+]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tim+
Fingers crossed this passes muster for the fibre installers.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xi24Nujp9k2xMBEe7

If you get a picky one, they might moan about bend-radius for the fibre?

I did wonder about that and tried to maximise it in the corner by the
gatepost by undermining the drive slightly. Do you know what the
recommended minimum radius is? Anything’s got to be better than their poor
Virgin service. They seem to be in an area where Virgin have given up
trying to provide a reliable service.

They plan to move to Zen.

Tim

[Tim+]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tim+
Fingers crossed this passes muster for the fibre installers.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xi24Nujp9k2xMBEe7

If you get a picky one, they might moan about bend-radius for the fibre?

Good news! Son-in-law applied for fibre internet and Cityfibre came round
as the property had been “red flagged” after their last visit. Initially
repeated their “we can’t do this” until my duct and pull through rope was
pointed out. They’ve now agreed that it’s an “easy job”.

Tim

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by Tim+
That would require serious drilling or trenching, neither of which I want
to do underneath a resin bonded driveway. A 4ft long drill might be hard
to find and and even assuming I could get a suitable size drill, if then
have the problem of pulling it through. Hence why I’m asking if some thing
smaller and smooth sided like hosepipe would work.

I suspect they don't have a suitable way to join hose to duct, and won't
use hose all the way.

Post by Tim+
I’m hopeful that perhaps a length of rebar could be hammered through and
then pulled back with a hose attached.

If it is nearly all soil, you might be able to enlarge the rebar size
tunnel. Properly compacted subgrade would be tricky anyway.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tim+
I mentioned before that my daughter is having trouble getting fibre to
their house because they had a resin bonded driveway done shortly after
Cityfibre had been along and put their access “toby” in the pavement

What types/depths of foundation is under the driveway?

[[e-mail]]

Post by Tim+
I mentioned before that my daughter is having trouble getting fibre to
their house because they had a resin bonded driveway done shortly after
Cityfibre had been along and put their access “toby” in the pavement
outside their house. It seems that this is a barrier to putting a duct in
that ISPs and City fibre don’t feel motivated to do anything about.
I’m tempted to attempt a bit of oblique drilling beneath the drive from the
toby to reach a nearby flower bed where I can dig down to where the drill
would emerge. Obviously I’d need to put in something to feed the fibre
through so I’m wondering about suitable ducting. Would garden hosepipe
suffice or would I need something bigger? Would fibre installers balk at a
“non-standard” bit of ducting?
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

The new ducts being install inside BT's ducts look like 19mm in pink. Plenty for a single fibre or two / three at a pinch.

You can get metre long masonry drills widely.

Beware drilling under your driveway there may be other utilities there.

[Tim+]

Post by Tim+
I mentioned before that my daughter is having trouble getting fibre to
their house because they had a resin bonded driveway done shortly after
Cityfibre had been along and put their access “toby” in the pavement
outside their house. It seems that this is a barrier to putting a duct in
that ISPs and City fibre don’t feel motivated to do anything about.
I’m tempted to attempt a bit of oblique drilling beneath the drive from the
toby to reach a nearby flower bed where I can dig down to where the drill
would emerge. Obviously I’d need to put in something to feed the fibre
through so I’m wondering about suitable ducting. Would garden hosepipe
suffice or would I need something bigger? Would fibre installers balk at a
“non-standard” bit of ducting?

Following the visit by the “duct fairy” the installation of the FTTP was a
breeze for the fitters and my daughter has a spanking new 300 Mbps
connection with Zen.

All’s well that ends well. Only fly in the ointment is that because their
fibre is provided by CityFibre it is a lot cheaper than that provided by
OpenReach (my fibre connector). :-(

Tim