POTs over Broadband

[Roland Perry]

It's almost 10yrs since I last read this newsgroup, so apologise if this
is a FAQ:

I'm having my ADSL++ upgraded to Full Fibre next week, and the
associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on it
anyway.

However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
too expensive).

If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.

Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

[Graham J]

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

Sign up with Voipfone - https://www.voipfone.co.uk/

Buy an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) with two POTs sockets from them
and plug it into your router. Plug your retro dial phone into one POTS
socket, and the base station for your DECT phone into the other.

Using their web portal, or by speaking to them, port in your geographic
VoIP number.

Ask here again if you need further guidance.

Cost - ATA about £56
Ported-in number £3 per month

Minimum call plan is "Flex" - make sure you set Users=0 otherwise they
charge you a further £1.5 per month because they treat users as extensions.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

Sign up with Voipfone - https://www.voipfone.co.uk/
Buy an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) with two POTs sockets from them
and plug it into your router. Plug your retro dial phone into one POTS
socket, and the base station for your DECT phone into the other.
Using their web portal, or by speaking to them, port in your geographic
VoIP number.
Ask here again if you need further guidance.
Cost - ATA about £56

Any particular models?

Post by Graham J
Ported-in number £3 per month

That appears to have gone up to £6 (£5 + VAT).

Post by Graham J
Minimum call plan is "Flex" - make sure you set Users=0 otherwise they
charge you a further £1.5 per month because they treat users as extensions.

[Graham J]

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
Cost - ATA about £56

Any particular models?

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
Cost - ATA about £56

Any particular models?

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142

Which appears to claim that to use the two sockets you need two VoIP
accounts (or one and an extension). That doubles the cost :(

They also don't recommend plugging two phones into to one socket, and
I'd need my vintage phone plus a Dect base.

[Graham J]

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
Which appears to claim that to use the two sockets you need two VoIP
accounts (or one and an extension). That doubles the cost :(

It would be worth signing up for an account and learning to use their
control panel. You can get a free 056 number to test with. This need
not cost you anything - other than the cost of making outgoing calls.
There's probably a free VoIP client you can run on your PC - others here
may be able to advise.

If you want each of the two sockets to respond to separate incoming
numbers, then you would need to port-in those numbers at £3 per number
per month. But if all the phones are expected to ring simultaneously
that implies only one account.

You can have more sophistication by specifying extensions. One phone
could ring during office hours, the other at different times, for example.

Most of this is designed to meet the needs of a small business, but I
think your needs can be met.

They respond promptly to email enquiries.

Post by Roland Perry
They also don't recommend plugging two phones into to one socket, and
I'd need my vintage phone plus a Dect base.

Probably this has to do with the available current to ring a
traditional bell.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
Which appears to claim that to use the two sockets you need two VoIP
accounts (or one and an extension). That doubles the cost :(

It would be worth signing up for an account and learning to use their
control panel. You can get a free 056 number to test with. This need
not cost you anything - other than the cost of making outgoing calls.
There's probably a free VoIP client you can run on your PC - others
here may be able to advise.

I was hoping for something a bit more "plug and play" than that.

Post by Graham J
If you want each of the two sockets to respond to separate incoming
numbers, then you would need to port-in those numbers at £3 per number
per month. But if all the phones are expected to ring simultaneously
that implies only one account.
You can have more sophistication by specifying extensions. One phone
could ring during office hours, the other at different times, for example.

That's the sort of thing my Gradwell account does, but the monthly cost
is completely disproportionate to the benefit delivered to sole traders.

Post by Graham J
Most of this is designed to meet the needs of a small business, but I
think your needs can be met.
They respond promptly to email enquiries.

Post by Roland Perry
They also don't recommend plugging two phones into to one socket,
and I'd need my vintage phone plus a Dect base.

Probably this has to do with the available current to ring a
traditional bell.

Someone has suggested a box with a 3-REN socket, which should be
sufficient.

[Graham J]

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
I was hoping for something a bit more "plug and play" than that.

Tough.

Openreach failed to understand the technical difficulties of cancelling
POTS by the end of 2025. BT has been unable to make their "plug and
play" solution work for all users; and some legacy services (Redcare,
panic alarms, and the like) will never work,

Sadly, this does mean that users are going to have to take some
responsibility for themselves.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
I was hoping for something a bit more "plug and play" than that.

Tough.

Shouldn't be.

Post by Graham J
Openreach failed to understand the technical difficulties of cancelling
POTS by the end of 2025. BT has been unable to make their "plug and
play" solution work for all users;

I'm not switching my broadband to BT, nor would I ever do that, they are
as you suggest a not very competent telco. My current POTs service is
LLU to Talktalk.

Post by Graham J
and some legacy services (Redcare, panic alarms, and the like) will
never work,

Irrelevant to my requirements. Although I have a panic alarm which works
with domestic roaming on mobile networks, no landline required!

Post by Graham J
Sadly, this does mean that users are going to have to take some
responsibility for themselves.

That's a such a 1990's attitude :(

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
I was hoping for something a bit more "plug and play" than that.

Tough.

Shouldn't be.

Post by Graham J
Openreach failed to understand the technical difficulties of cancelling
POTS by the end of 2025. BT has been unable to make their "plug and
play" solution work for all users;

I'm not switching my broadband to BT, nor would I ever do that, they are
as you suggest a not very competent telco. My current POTs service is
LLU to Talktalk.

Post by Graham J
and some legacy services (Redcare, panic alarms, and the like) will
never work,

Irrelevant to my requirements. Although I have a panic alarm which works
with domestic roaming on mobile networks, no landline required!

Post by Graham J
Sadly, this does mean that users are going to have to take some
responsibility for themselves.

That's a such a 1990's attitude :(

I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
together before!

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
Openreach failed to understand the technical difficulties of cancelling
POTS by the end of 2025. BT has been unable to make their "plug and
play" solution work for all users;

I'm not switching my broadband to BT, nor would I ever do that, they are
as you suggest a not very competent telco. My current POTs service is
LLU to Talktalk.

Post by Graham J
and some legacy services (Redcare, panic alarms, and the like) will
never work,

Irrelevant to my requirements. Although I have a panic alarm which works
with domestic roaming on mobile networks, no landline required!

Post by Graham J
Sadly, this does mean that users are going to have to take some
responsibility for themselves.

That's a such a 1990's attitude :(

I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
together before!

For two years now their 250Mbit copper service (and POTS) has
been virtually flawless, unlike the previous 70Mbit Plusnet
which was up and down like the proverbial whore's drawers.
And had massive crosstalk on the audio (not because I hadn't
fitted the routine filters in the house).

[JMB99]

Post by Tweed
I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
together before!

I just thinking the same!

[Roland Perry]

Post by JMB99

Post by Tweed
I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
together before!

I just thinking the same!

My Talktalk v.fast has been faultless, both installation and use for two
years. Have never needed to call on support even once.

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by JMB99

Post by Tweed
I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
together before!

I just thinking the same!

My Talktalk v.fast has been faultless, both installation and use for two
years. Have never needed to call on support even once.

They did manage to leak their customer database details though.

https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/media-centre/talktalk-cyber-attack-how-the-ico-investigation-unfolded/

Though to be fair, every other organisation seems to be doing the same so
it seems.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by JMB99

Post by Tweed
I’ve never before seen TalkTalk (residential arm) and competent telco used
together before!

I just thinking the same!

My Talktalk v.fast has been faultless, both installation and use for two
years. Have never needed to call on support even once.

They did manage to leak their customer database details though.
https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/media-centre/talktalk-cyber-attack-how-
the-ico-investigation-unfolded/

Nine years ago! Anyway I'm with a Talkalk reseller, so a different
customer database.

Post by Tweed
Though to be fair, every other organisation seems to be doing the same so
it seems.

[Theo]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
Cost - ATA about £56

Any particular models?

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/shop.php?method=view&pid=142

Which appears to claim that to use the two sockets you need two VoIP
accounts (or one and an extension). That doubles the cost :(
They also don't recommend plugging two phones into to one socket, and
I'd need my vintage phone plus a Dect base.

I can't speak for Voipfone or this adapter, but if the adapter has a
separate VOIP config for each socket, you can choose to configure both
sockets for the same account. Usually the way it works is they both ring,
the first to answer gets the call. The other phone is then available to
concurrently receive other incoming calls or make outgoing calls. There is
probably a way to share a call across both extensions or to 'transfer' it to
the other extension, which will depend on the ATA.

If you put both phones on one socket via a splitter or phone wiring, they're
on the same analogue line - so if a call is in a progress on one handset,
the other handset picking up will hear the call, and you can't make or
receive calls on the second handset until the first has hung up. That's
standard analogue behaviour but there's no actual reason to do it that way
on VOIP.

It's also possible the REN of the box is limited, but the loading of your
DECT base should be minimal on top of a vintage phone, so I don't see why
you couldn't do that.

It's only if you want multiple phone numbers do you need a separate account
for each.

Theo

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

Sign up with Voipfone - https://www.voipfone.co.uk/
Buy an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) with two POTs sockets from them
and plug it into your router. Plug your retro dial phone into one POTS
socket, and the base station for your DECT phone into the other.
Using their web portal, or by speaking to them, port in your geographic
VoIP number.
Ask here again if you need further guidance.
Cost - ATA about £56

Any particular models?

Post by Graham J
Ported-in number £3 per month

That appears to have gone up to £6 (£5 + VAT).

Post by Graham J
Minimum call plan is "Flex" - make sure you set Users=0 otherwise they
charge you a further £1.5 per month because they treat users as extensions.

I use Andrews and Arnold

https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/

I purchased their Yealink DECT base station and handset. It works well.

In the past A&A have railed against NAT and the problems it potentially
introduces for VOIP. The various protocols involved are supposed to work
around this, so I don’t know how much of an issue this really is today. My
ISP (IDnet) gives me a fully routed IPv6 subnet so NAT isn’t an issue.

I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the demand has gone
away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two main vendors these days. A
lot of the Cisco kit seems designed for a corporate rollout so check the
manual in advance to see that it can be configured at a single user
domestic level.

If you want to retain your landline number make sure it gets ported before
your POTs service vanishes. It can take a week to ten days for the porting
process to complete.

One advantage of Andrew’s and Arnold is that you can always (during
working hours) get to speak to someone who knows what they are talking
about. They might even be able to point you I the direction of an ATA.

I suppose an alternative is to purchase a router with an integrated
analogue phone socket. I guess the other potential issue with an ATA is
does it have enough oomph to power a mechanical bell.

[Tweed]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

Sign up with Voipfone - https://www.voipfone.co.uk/
Buy an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) with two POTs sockets from them
and plug it into your router. Plug your retro dial phone into one POTS
socket, and the base station for your DECT phone into the other.
Using their web portal, or by speaking to them, port in your geographic
VoIP number.
Ask here again if you need further guidance.
Cost - ATA about £56

Any particular models?

Post by Graham J
Ported-in number £3 per month

That appears to have gone up to £6 (£5 + VAT).

Post by Graham J
Minimum call plan is "Flex" - make sure you set Users=0 otherwise they
charge you a further £1.5 per month because they treat users as extensions.

I use Andrews and Arnold
https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/
I purchased their Yealink DECT base station and handset. It works well.
In the past A&A have railed against NAT and the problems it potentially
introduces for VOIP. The various protocols involved are supposed to work
around this, so I don’t know how much of an issue this really is today. My
ISP (IDnet) gives me a fully routed IPv6 subnet so NAT isn’t an issue.
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the demand has gone
away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two main vendors these days. A
lot of the Cisco kit seems designed for a corporate rollout so check the
manual in advance to see that it can be configured at a single user
domestic level.
If you want to retain your landline number make sure it gets ported before
your POTs service vanishes. It can take a week to ten days for the porting
process to complete.
One advantage of Andrew’s and Arnold is that you can always (during
working hours) get to speak to someone who knows what they are talking
about. They might even be able to point you I the direction of an ATA.
I suppose an alternative is to purchase a router with an integrated
analogue phone socket. I guess the other potential issue with an ATA is
does it have enough oomph to power a mechanical bell.

PS: you’d also need to check that the ATA supports loop disconnect
dialling.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed
I guess the other potential issue with an ATA is
does it have enough oomph to power a mechanical bell.

PS: you’d also need to check that the ATA supports loop disconnect
dialling.

I'm a happy to buy a "vintage ATA", if that helps. There's absolutely no
need to get a brand new one.

[Bob Eager]

Post by Tweed
One advantage of Andrew’s and Arnold is that you can always (during
working hours) get to speak to someone who knows what they are talking
about. They might even be able to point you I the direction of an ATA.

Once you've paid the porting fee (£15 last time I looked) AAISP charge
£1.20 + VAT per month for each number. Calls are cheap too.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Tweed
One advantage of Andrew’s and Arnold is that you can always (during
working hours) get to speak to someone who knows what they are talking
about. They might even be able to point you I the direction of an ATA.

Once you've paid the porting fee (£15 last time I looked) AAISP charge
£1.20 + VAT per month for each number. Calls are cheap too.

That sounds much more affordable.

[Theo]

Post by Tweed
I use Andrews and Arnold
https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/
I purchased their Yealink DECT base station and handset. It works well.
In the past A&A have railed against NAT and the problems it potentially
introduces for VOIP. The various protocols involved are supposed to work
around this, so I don’t know how much of an issue this really is today. My
ISP (IDnet) gives me a fully routed IPv6 subnet so NAT isn’t an issue.

I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not had
problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it probably helps if
you make sure you set the STUN server address when configuring the ATA but a
number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the demand has gone
away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two main vendors these days. A
lot of the Cisco kit seems designed for a corporate rollout so check the
manual in advance to see that it can be configured at a single user
domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

Theo

[Tweed]

Post by Theo

Post by Tweed
I use Andrews and Arnold
https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/
I purchased their Yealink DECT base station and handset. It works well.
In the past A&A have railed against NAT and the problems it potentially
introduces for VOIP. The various protocols involved are supposed to work
around this, so I don’t know how much of an issue this really is today. My
ISP (IDnet) gives me a fully routed IPv6 subnet so NAT isn’t an issue.

I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not had
problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it probably helps if
you make sure you set the STUN server address when configuring the ATA but a
number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the demand has gone
away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two main vendors these days. A
lot of the Cisco kit seems designed for a corporate rollout so check the
manual in advance to see that it can be configured at a single user
domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.
Theo

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_english.pdf

Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not had
problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it probably helps if
you make sure you set the STUN server address when configuring the ATA but a
number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the demand has gone
away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two main vendors these days. A
lot of the Cisco kit seems designed for a corporate rollout so check the
manual in advance to see that it can be configured at a single user
domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not had
problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it probably helps if
you make sure you set the STUN server address when configuring the ATA but a
number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the demand has gone
away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two main vendors these days. A
lot of the Cisco kit seems designed for a corporate rollout so check the
manual in advance to see that it can be configured at a single user
domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device didn’t work.

[Tweed]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not had
problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it probably helps if
you make sure you set the STUN server address when configuring the ATA but a
number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the demand has gone
away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two main vendors these days. A
lot of the Cisco kit seems designed for a corporate rollout so check the
manual in advance to see that it can be configured at a single user
domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device didn’t work.

You might find this helpful

https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not had
problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it probably helps if
you make sure you set the STUN server address when configuring the ATA but a
number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device didn’t work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not had
problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it probably helps if
you make sure you set the STUN server address when configuring the ATA but a
number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device didn’t work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A would only
guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home users is
only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.

Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and
not had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device didn’t work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A would only
guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home users is
only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.
Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.

I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and
not had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device didn’t work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A would only
guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home users is
only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.
Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.

I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.

Why not?

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and
not had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone
Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device didn’t work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A would only
guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home users is
only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.
Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.

I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.

Why not?

Because I think they've been superceded; but even so, all it allows is a
preliminary inspection on arrival, not a "test drive". After that it's
down to what used to be called "Sale of Goods".

Amazon, however, is still in the business of buying market share at the
expense of their suppliers, so has a non-statutory pretty much "no
quibbles" returns policy.

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and
not had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone
Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device didn’t work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A would only
guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home users is
only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.
Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.

I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.

Why not?

Because I think they've been superceded; but even so, all it allows is a
preliminary inspection on arrival, not a "test drive". After that it's
down to what used to be called "Sale of Goods".
Amazon, however, is still in the business of buying market share at the
expense of their suppliers, so has a non-statutory pretty much "no
quibbles" returns policy.

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses

You must tell the customer they can cancel their order up to 14 days after
their order is delivered. They do not need to give a reason for cancelling.

Exceptions
These rules do not apply to:
goods and services worth £42 or less

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and
not had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone
Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus
a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device
work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A would only
guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home users is
only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.
Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.

I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.

Why not?

Because I think they've been superceded; but even so, all it allows is a
preliminary inspection on arrival, not a "test drive". After that it's
down to what used to be called "Sale of Goods".
Amazon, however, is still in the business of buying market share at the
expense of their suppliers, so has a non-statutory pretty much "no
quibbles" returns policy.

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses
You must tell the customer they can cancel their order up to 14 days after
their order is delivered. They do not need to give a reason for cancelling.
Exceptions
goods and services worth £42 or less

But see:

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and
not had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone
Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus
a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device
work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A would only
guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home users is
only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.
Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.

I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.

Why not?

Because I think they've been superceded; but even so, all it allows is a
preliminary inspection on arrival, not a "test drive". After that it's
down to what used to be called "Sale of Goods".
Amazon, however, is still in the business of buying market share at the
expense of their suppliers, so has a non-statutory pretty much "no
quibbles" returns policy.

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses
You must tell the customer they can cancel their order up to 14 days after
their order is delivered. They do not need to give a reason for cancelling.
Exceptions
goods and services worth £42 or less

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

I see nothing in that section which negates my original standpoint.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and
not had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and it's just worked.

Post by Tweed
I can’t offer any current advice about Analogue Telephone
Adapters (ATA).
They used to be common and cheap but no longer. I guess the
demand has gone away. Cisco and Grandstream seem to be the two
main vendors these days. A lot of the Cisco kit seems designed
for a corporate rollout so check the manual in advance to see
that it can be configured at a single user domestic level.

It's worth checking that it supports pulse dialling.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138482
suggests you could use a pulse to tone dialling converter plus
a regular
ATA, but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht8
12_english.pdf
Seems to support both loop disconnect dialling and has a REN of 3, so
likely to operate the mechanical bell.

Looks very promising, but need to check if it's "supported" by A&A I
suppose.

Give their tech support line a call. Their VOIP service is standards
compliant, so I’d be surprised if the Grandstream device
work.

You might find this helpful
https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_Phones_-_Grandstream_HT8xx

Makes it sound like a can of worms, or are boxes where xx<>01 not
susceptible to the same issues?

Post by Tweed
https://support.aa.net.uk/Category:VoIP_Phones

Same question about the "xx". Or have they only tested xx=01?

I’ve no idea. The world of voip is full of pitfalls. I think A&A would only
guarantee the performance of the devices they sell, which for home users is
only the Yealink DECT base station and handset.
Order what you want from Amazon, then you can send it back using the
distance selling regulations if you can’t make it work.

I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.

Why not?

Because I think they've been superceded; but even so, all it allows is a
preliminary inspection on arrival, not a "test drive". After that it's
down to what used to be called "Sale of Goods".
Amazon, however, is still in the business of buying market share at the
expense of their suppliers, so has a non-statutory pretty much "no
quibbles" returns policy.

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses
You must tell the customer they can cancel their order up to 14 days after
their order is delivered. They do not need to give a reason for cancelling.
Exceptions
goods and services worth £42 or less

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

I see nothing in that section which negates my original standpoint.

Tis isn't the right group to debate this issue, but it comes down to
being able to return the goods in "as new" condition (some traders
will insist on virtually "unopened" too.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry
I could sent it back, but DSRs aren't the relevant mechanism.

Why not?

Because I think they've been superceded;

I'm sure if they'd tried a bit harder they could forced the initialism
"kickarse" to fit the name of the instrument ...

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional
Charges) Regulations 2013

[Marco Moock]

Post by Theo
but also some ATAs that do support pulse.

https://www.grandstream.com/products/gateways-and-atas/analog-telephone-adaptors

Supports IPv6 and pulse dialing.
Although, I haven't tested that yet.

[Bob Latham]

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not
had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
when configuring the ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and
it's just worked.

Currently with very expensive Virgin Media but we're supposed to be
getting BRSK if they *ever* put the poles up.

Anyone know if these things work with Virgin and CGNAT used by BRSK?

Thanks.

Bob.

[Tweed]

Post by Bob Latham

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not
had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
when configuring the ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and
it's just worked.

Currently with very expensive Virgin Media but we're supposed to be
getting BRSK if they *ever* put the poles up.
Anyone know if these things work with Virgin and CGNAT used by BRSK?
Thanks.
Bob.

BRSK claim to support ipv6, so hopefully no NAT on that.

[Bob Latham]

Post by Tweed

Post by Bob Latham

Post by Theo
I've used A&A over a number of ISPs that don't offer IPv6 and not
had problems. It's basically plug and play these days - it
probably helps if you make sure you set the STUN server address
when configuring the ATA but a number of ISP and router swaps and
it's just worked.

Currently with very expensive Virgin Media but we're supposed to be
getting BRSK if they *ever* put the poles up.
Anyone know if these things work with Virgin and CGNAT used by BRSK?
Thanks.
Bob.

BRSK claim to support ipv6, so hopefully no NAT on that.

I can't grasp IPv6 at all. I've read quite a bit but the more I read,
the more confused I get. I don't know anyone who has it or knows
anything of it, for me it's a bogey man and a disaster waiting to
happen.

Bob.

[Peter Johnson]

On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 20:00:46 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Bob Latham

Post by Tweed
BRSK claim to support ipv6, so hopefully no NAT on that.

I can't grasp IPv6 at all. I've read quite a bit but the more I read,
the more confused I get. I don't know anyone who has it or knows
anything of it, for me it's a bogey man and a disaster waiting to
happen.

I have ipv6 because it was available (fron Zen) but I have no idea
what it's doing. Some of my devices have ipv6 addresses, as well as
ipv4, but I don't know what they are using, or what benefit, if any, I
get from it.

[Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd]

Post by Peter Johnson
I have ipv6 because it was available (fron Zen) but I have no idea
what it's doing. Some of my devices have ipv6 addresses, as well
as ipv4, but I don't know what they are using, or what benefit, if
any, I get from it.

The main benefit of IPv6 will be still having internet connectivity when IPv4
addresses finally run out and bodges like CGNAT prove inadequate.

This may be many years away, since unused IPv4 allocations are being recovered
and sold for high prices to ISPs and data centres that need new IPv4 addresses.


Today, most better web sites offer IPv4 and IPv6 addresses for a DNS lookup,
and browsers will generally use IPv6 if available, but it's all transparent to
users.

You can check if IPv6 is working by accessing web sites that are IPv6 only like,
https://ipv6.google.com/

Angus

[Graham J]

Bob Latham wrote:

[snip]

Post by Bob Latham
Anyone know if these things work with Virgin and CGNAT used by BRSK?

I've found that the Voipfone kit works with several different ISPs and
mainstream routers - all using NAT. I had one system running with a
Satellite system (probably using CGNAT) and that worked despite the latency!

By comparison the BT Cloud Voice Express system that was forced onto a
local business does not work reliably with the BT Smart Hub 2 - it
appears to have problems with NAT and intermittently loses voice in one
direction or the other. This is evidently a well-known problem that BT
have yet to solve.

[JMB99]

Post by Graham J
By comparison the BT Cloud Voice Express system that was forced onto a
local business does not work reliably with the BT Smart Hub 2 - it
appears to have problems with NAT and intermittently loses voice in one
direction or the other.  This is evidently a well-known problem that BT
have yet to solve.

Is that one reason so many interviews on the radio drop out? I thought
it was people using mobile phones.

[Graham J]

JMB99 wrote:

[snip]

Is that one reason so many interviews on the radio drop out?  I thought
it was people using mobile phones.

Possibly, ut interviews where the interviewee uses a mobile phone are
obvious by their poor audio quality. So if that poor quality is
followed by a drop-out - it might be the correct explanation.

What I notice more often is that the presenter says something like: "We
have Mr Politician on the line now. Hello Mr Politician ....."

There's then an embarrassing silence - but I suspect this is finger
trouble somewhere.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Is that one reason so many interviews on the radio drop out?  I
thought it was people using mobile phones.

Possibly, ut interviews where the interviewee uses a mobile phone are
obvious by their poor audio quality. So if that poor quality is
followed by a drop-out - it might be the correct explanation.
What I notice more often is that the presenter says something like: "We
have Mr Politician on the line now.

And of course, it's not a "line", it's a cloud.

Post by Graham J
Hello Mr Politician ....."
There's then an embarrassing silence - but I suspect this is finger
trouble somewhere.

Probably the politician failing to un-mute themselves.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed
If you want to retain your landline number

"the associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on
it anyway."

[Graham J]

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
Ported-in number £3 per month

That appears to have gone up to £6 (£5 + VAT).

From https://www.voipfone.co.uk/services/porting whcih includes the text:

"... Voipfone Flex where it's just £3 ex VAT per month and you pay
separately for any calls you make."

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
Ported-in number £3 per month

That appears to have gone up to £6 (£5 + VAT).

"... Voipfone Flex where it's just £3 ex VAT

So £3.60 inc VAT?

Post by Graham J
per month and you pay separately for any calls you make."

Slightly off-putting that elsewhere on their site they appear to price
it at £6 (inc VAT, not ex-VAT).

[Marco Moock]

Post by Graham J
Buy an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) with two POTs sockets from them
and plug it into your router.

Make sure it supports pulse dialing. If it doesn't, you can dial with
your rotary phone.

Make sure it supports IPv6, so you can use it even when you don't get a
public IPv4.

[Bob Eager]

Post by Marco Moock
Make sure it supports pulse dialing. If it doesn't, you can dial with
your rotary phone.

ITYM "can't" ...

[Marco Moock]

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Marco Moock
Make sure it supports pulse dialing. If it doesn't, you can dial
with your rotary phone.

ITYM "can't" ...

Yes, my fault.

[JMB99]

Post by Roland Perry
However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
too expensive).

Before I retired I was often on 24/7 call, I found pagers just did not
always wake me and sometimes I was convinced the pager had gone when it
had not.

I so I used to plug in a proper phone with a bell overnight - that woke
me immediately!

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by Roland Perry
It's almost 10yrs since I last read this newsgroup, so apologise if this
I'm having my ADSL++ upgraded to Full Fibre next week, and the
associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on it
anyway.
However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
too expensive).
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

I went for the very boring option. At the time I was a BT employee so
got a good deal. Looking at alternatives now, there isn't much change
in cost so I've stayed with it.

Anyway, I have my proper "old" phone (pulse dial, bell, bakelite)
plugged into the original house wiring extension.
The hub is a standard BT Smart Hub 2 and I've connected the ATA socket
on the back to the house wiring. Simples!
Of course pulse dialling doesn't work but everything else does.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry
It's almost 10yrs since I last read this newsgroup, so apologise if this
I'm having my ADSL++ upgraded to Full Fibre next week, and the
associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on it
anyway.
However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
too expensive).
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

I went for the very boring option. At the time I was a BT employee so
got a good deal. Looking at alternatives now, there isn't much change
in cost so I've stayed with it.
Anyway, I have my proper "old" phone (pulse dial, bell, bakelite)
plugged into the original house wiring extension.
The hub is a standard BT Smart Hub 2 and I've connected the ATA socket
on the back to the house wiring. Simples!

I'm pretty sure the Full Fibre ATA won't have a POTs socket on it,
whether supplied by BT (it isn't) or the people I'm signed up with.

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Of course pulse dialling doesn't work but everything else does.

For a proper retro installation, pulse dialling has to work (even if
thanks to an extra gadget).

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry
It's almost 10yrs since I last read this newsgroup, so apologise if this
I'm having my ADSL++ upgraded to Full Fibre next week, and the
associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on it
anyway.
However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
too expensive).
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

I went for the very boring option. At the time I was a BT employee so
got a good deal. Looking at alternatives now, there isn't much change
in cost so I've stayed with it.
Anyway, I have my proper "old" phone (pulse dial, bell, bakelite)
plugged into the original house wiring extension.
The hub is a standard BT Smart Hub 2 and I've connected the ATA socket
on the back to the house wiring. Simples!

I'm pretty sure the Full Fibre ATA won't have a POTs socket on it,
whether supplied by BT (it isn't) or the people I'm signed up with.

The BT Smart Hub 2 and the EE equivalent both have a standard socket in
the back serviced from the built-in ATA.

BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
socket

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Of course pulse dialling doesn't work but everything else does.

For a proper retro installation, pulse dialling has to work (even if
thanks to an extra gadget).

For use with the DECT-BT socket thing, I've had to do the bell wire
frob to get the bell to ring. Quite simple. I don't have the soldering
skills to do the pulse-tone conversion myself

[Roland Perry]

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry
It's almost 10yrs since I last read this newsgroup, so apologise if this
I'm having my ADSL++ upgraded to Full Fibre next week, and the
associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on it
anyway.
However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
too expensive).
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

I went for the very boring option. At the time I was a BT employee so
got a good deal. Looking at alternatives now, there isn't much change
in cost so I've stayed with it.
Anyway, I have my proper "old" phone (pulse dial, bell, bakelite)
plugged into the original house wiring extension.
The hub is a standard BT Smart Hub 2 and I've connected the ATA socket
on the back to the house wiring. Simples!

I'm pretty sure the Full Fibre ATA won't have a POTs socket on it,
whether supplied by BT (it isn't) or the people I'm signed up with.

The BT Smart Hub 2 and the EE equivalent both have a standard socket in
the back serviced from the built-in ATA.

Fair enough. I've not seen an ADSL modem/router with an inbuilt phone
socket for perhaps 20yrs. It was all the rage, briefly.

I think it floundered because of the problems setting them up to work
with a plethora of often quirky VoIP providers.

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Of course pulse dialling doesn't work but everything else does.

For a proper retro installation, pulse dialling has to work (even if
thanks to an extra gadget).

For use with the DECT-BT socket thing, I've had to do the bell wire
frob to get the bell to ring. Quite simple. I don't have the soldering
skills to do the pulse-tone conversion myself

I'm looking to buy a box where it works by design.

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry
It's almost 10yrs since I last read this newsgroup, so apologise if this
I'm having my ADSL++ upgraded to Full Fibre next week, and the
associated POTs line is toast. Nobody but scammers call me on it
anyway.
However, as an exercise as much as anything else, I'd like to retain
my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a 'box' which will,
like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and service a
geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but they are
too expensive).
If I need to make any outgoing calls, I've got a DECT cordless.
Recommendations for the 'box' and the VoIP provider please.

I went for the very boring option. At the time I was a BT employee so
got a good deal. Looking at alternatives now, there isn't much change
in cost so I've stayed with it.
Anyway, I have my proper "old" phone (pulse dial, bell, bakelite)
plugged into the original house wiring extension.
The hub is a standard BT Smart Hub 2 and I've connected the ATA socket
on the back to the house wiring. Simples!

I'm pretty sure the Full Fibre ATA won't have a POTs socket on it,
whether supplied by BT (it isn't) or the people I'm signed up with.

The BT Smart Hub 2 and the EE equivalent both have a standard socket in
the back serviced from the built-in ATA.

Fair enough. I've not seen an ADSL modem/router with an inbuilt phone
socket for perhaps 20yrs. It was all the rage, briefly.
I think it floundered because of the problems setting them up to work
with a plethora of often quirky VoIP providers.

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Of course pulse dialling doesn't work but everything else does.

For a proper retro installation, pulse dialling has to work (even if
thanks to an extra gadget).

For use with the DECT-BT socket thing, I've had to do the bell wire
frob to get the bell to ring. Quite simple. I don't have the soldering
skills to do the pulse-tone conversion myself

I'm looking to buy a box where it works by design.

Almost anything you buy will need some sort of adapter. One to get the
bell wire going which is easy/cheap and one to store all the pulses and
then send them as tones, which is more expensive

[Roland Perry]

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?) the
smart-hub is also a DECT base?

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?) the
smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Correct. I think this is actually a weakness as the "Digital" handsets
have to be within DECT range of the hub and it seems their range is on
the low side. Wi-Fi for the handsets would seem to me to be a better
idea

[Davey]

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 23:35:42 +0100

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired

with

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a
cord with a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
the smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Correct. I think this is actually a weakness as the "Digital"
handsets have to be within DECT range of the hub and it seems their
range is on the low side. Wi-Fi for the handsets would seem to me to
be a better idea

My Panasonic DECT handsets work outside in the garden, about 80 feet
away from the house, and maybe further. I can even use them next door,
so I wouldn't consider that a concern. That is using the system's DECT
base-station, which is what I would do, plugging it in to the
Fritz!Box's POTS connector. My (meshless) WiFi has a far weaker signal
strength.

[Chris Green]

Post by Davey
On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 23:35:42 +0100

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired

with

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a
cord with a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
the smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Correct. I think this is actually a weakness as the "Digital"
handsets have to be within DECT range of the hub and it seems their
range is on the low side. Wi-Fi for the handsets would seem to me to
be a better idea

My Panasonic DECT handsets work outside in the garden, about 80 feet
away from the house, and maybe further. I can even use them next door,
so I wouldn't consider that a concern. That is using the system's DECT
base-station, which is what I would do, plugging it in to the
Fritz!Box's POTS connector. My (meshless) WiFi has a far weaker signal
strength.

Yes, that's our experience too. We have a Gigaset DECT system and it
really does work out to the often quoted 300 metres range (we have a 9
acre smallholding so 300 metres is still 'at home'!). Our WiFi
coverage (from several APs, Asus, TP-Link and others) only goes out to
100 metres or so.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Chris Green

Post by Davey

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry
Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a
cord with a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
the smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Correct. I think this is actually a weakness as the "Digital"
handsets have to be within DECT range of the hub and it seems their
range is on the low side. Wi-Fi for the handsets would seem to me to
be a better idea

My Panasonic DECT handsets work outside in the garden, about 80 feet
away from the house, and maybe further. I can even use them next door,
so I wouldn't consider that a concern. That is using the system's DECT
base-station, which is what I would do, plugging it in to the
Fritz!Box's POTS connector. My (meshless) WiFi has a far weaker signal
strength.

Yes, that's our experience too. We have a Gigaset DECT system and it
really does work out to the often quoted 300 metres range (we have a 9
acre smallholding so 300 metres is still 'at home'!). Our WiFi
coverage (from several APs, Asus, TP-Link and others) only goes out to
100 metres or so.

This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".

Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it
does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice Customers
Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to that, marked
"do not use".

Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

[Graham J]

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it
does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice Customers
Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to that, marked
"do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL. The mystery
"Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate modem, such as
the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP installations.

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may be
able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be
limited to WiFi settings only.

You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of a
number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

[Geoff Clare]

Post by Graham J
In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings.

I have a Zen-provided Fritz!Box which auto-configured for their
Digital Voice when it was installed a few months ago. I have since
ported my number to A&A VoIP and was able to reconfigure the Fritz!Box
to use it.

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by Graham J
In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may be
able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be
limited to WiFi settings only.

I managed to connect one of my BT cordless handsets to the Fritzbox,
in that it showed in the DECT section of the config pages as
'connected', but I couldn't make any calls with it. Maybe I missed
some vital setting so I might have another go some time.

I've thought about getting one of the Fritz 'Fon' handsets to try out,
but they're expensive, and I've seen a lot of faulty ones on Ebay,
which isn't a good sign. However a standard BT cordless phone with the
base station physically plugged into the Fritzbox works very well.

Rod.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
that, marked "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
that, marked "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812

https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_english.pdf

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
that, marked "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
that, marked "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic users
mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet connected desk
phones.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tweed
I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.

Cisco SPAxxx or ATAxxx devices
Audiocodes MPxxx devices
Polycom
The Ribbon de

[David Wade]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
that, marked "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic users
mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet connected desk
phones.

I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

Dave

[Theo]

Post by David Wade
I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

Sorta. On the Fritzbox 7530 they say:

<quote>
11 Connecting and configuring an analog telephone

The following steps are only necessary if the telephone is connected to the analog extension "FON":

Setting your analog telephone to tone dialing

Set your device to "tone dialing" (DTMF) and not "pulse dialing". Pulse
dialing is no longer state of the art and can lead to dialing problems on a
telephone system. We therefore cannot guarantee that devices with pulse
dialing will operate correctly with the FRITZ!Box. With tone dialing, you
hear a tone when you press a number key; with pulse dialing, you hear
clicking sounds. Refer to the manufacturer of the device for information on
how to set it up, for example consult the manual.
</quote>

https://en.avm.de/service/knowledge-base/dok/FRITZ-Box-7530/28_Cannot-make-outgoing-calls/

In other words, they don't 'support' pulse dialling, but they don't say it
won't work - it's just your problem if there are issues. If it didn't
handle pulse dialling at all they would likely say that.

Theo
(have a 7530 but it's running OpenWRT which doesn't have drivers for the
phone port)

[Roland Perry]

Post by David Wade

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
that, marked "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
Domestic users mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use
Ethernet connected desk phones.

I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

My ISP doesn't supply that.

[David Wade]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by David Wade

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
yes it  does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
that, marked  "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
proprietary VoIP
solutions.  You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings.  You
may
be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently.  You can then chose any
one of
a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

 I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic
users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet
connected desk  phones.

I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

My ISP doesn't supply that.

Many available on E-Bay....

Dave

[Roland Perry]

Post by David Wade

Post by Roland Perry

Post by David Wade

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two". Anyway, I've
reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it 
does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket
next to that, marked  "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or
only BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes
no mention of DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
proprietary VoIP solutions.  You will be able to log into
Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't know whether you get any option to
manage the VoIP settings.  You may be able to see some
settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one
suited to your other requirements, such as VPN support),
coupled with an ATA or VoIP base-station bought
independently.  You can then chose any one of a number of
VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

 I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
Domestic users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use
Ethernet connected desk  phones.

I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

My ISP doesn't supply that.

Many available on E-Bay....

I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?

As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by David Wade

Post by Roland Perry

Post by David Wade

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two". Anyway, I've
reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it 
does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket
next to that, marked  "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or
only BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes
no mention of DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
proprietary VoIP solutions.  You will be able to log into
Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't know whether you get any option to
manage the VoIP settings.  You may be able to see some
settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be limited to
WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one
suited to your other requirements, such as VPN support),
coupled with an ATA or VoIP base-station bought
independently.  You can then chose any one of a number of
VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

 I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
Domestic users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use
Ethernet connected desk  phones.

I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

My ISP doesn't supply that.

Many available on E-Bay....

I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry
I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

[Tweed]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry
I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

Isn’t the point to use somebody else’s VoIP service?

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tweed

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry
I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

Isn’t the point to use somebody else’s VoIP service?

Can't remember what the O/P actually wants to do voice-wise

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry
I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

Isn’t the point to use somebody else’s VoIP service?

Can't remember what the O/P actually wants to do voice-wise...

You could always re-read my original posting:

"I'd like to retain my retro dial phone with bells, and connect it to a
'box' which will, like the Openreach gubbins, be powered from a UPS, and
service a geographic VoIP number that's currently with Gradwell (but
they are too expensive)."

[Bob Eager]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry
I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

That's perfectly OK with AAISP. As I know.

I can't see why that would be a problem.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed
Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

That's perfectly OK with AAISP. As I know.
I can't see why that would be a problem.

It wouldn't be a problem with most 3rd party VoIP providers, but most
(all?) ISPs who provide a bundled "Digital Voice" service as part of a
broadband offering seem reluctant to give credentials and proxy/stun
server details ...

Presumably you buy SIP/RTP services from AA separately from your FTTP
service?

[Bob Eager]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed
Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

That's perfectly OK with AAISP. As I know.
I can't see why that would be a problem.

It wouldn't be a problem with most 3rd party VoIP providers, but most
(all?) ISPs who provide a bundled "Digital Voice" service as part of a
broadband offering seem reluctant to give credentials and proxy/stun
server details ...
Presumably you buy SIP/RTP services from AA separately from your FTTP
service?

Well, I pay a separate fee (£1.20 plus VAT per number per month). And a
small amount for call charges. But it all comes on the one bill.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed
Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

That's perfectly OK with AAISP. As I know.
I can't see why that would be a problem.

It wouldn't be a problem with most 3rd party VoIP providers, but most
(all?) ISPs who provide a bundled "Digital Voice" service as part of a
broadband offering seem reluctant to give credentials and proxy/stun
server details ...
Presumably you buy SIP/RTP services from AA separately from your FTTP
service?

Well, I pay a separate fee (£1.20 plus VAT per number per month). And a
small amount for call charges. But it all comes on the one bill.

The old ISP provided voice service over POTS as part of the FTTC
offering. But the call charges were preposterous (30p connection
charge plus 20p/minute for inland calls), which is one reason I'm
ditching them.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry
I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Yes for broadband, but unlikely to allow you to use their VoIP service
with your own router.

I wouldn't want to use *their* VoIP service, Dear Liza. Indeed, I have
not subscribed to it. The whole point is to be able to use someone
else's.

[Graham J]

Tweed wrote:

[snip]

Post by Tweed
Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

That may be true where the fibre supplier provides an ONT.

Many fibre suppliers (such as County Broadband) provide a router with
the ONT integrated within it. So far as I have been able to establish
the suppliers do not provide management information for these routers,
so that you cannot - for example - configure them in modem mode so as to
use your own router for VPN support.

[David Wade]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Tweed
Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

That may be true where the fibre supplier provides an ONT.
Many fibre suppliers (such as County Broadband) provide a router with
the ONT integrated within it.  So far as I have been able to establish
the suppliers do not provide management information for these routers,
so that you cannot - for example - configure them in modem mode so as to
use your own router for VPN support.

Well the FAQ says that County Broadband can set the router into Bridge
Mode so you can use your own router...

https://service.countybroadband.co.uk/index.php?rp=/knowledgebase/47/Full-Fibre-FAQs.html

Not sure if they use CGNAT if so you may need a fixed IP4 address for
which they charge £5/month.

Dave

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by David Wade

Post by Roland Perry

Post by David Wade

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two". Anyway, I've
reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes it 
does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket
next to that, marked  "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or
only BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes
no mention of DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
proprietary VoIP solutions.  You will be able to log into
Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't know whether you get any option to
manage the VoIP settings.  You may be able to see some
settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be limited to
WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one
suited to your other requirements, such as VPN support),
coupled with an ATA or VoIP base-station bought
independently.  You can then chose any one of a number of
VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet
_ht812_ english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

 I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors.
Domestic users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use
Ethernet connected desk  phones.

I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

My ISP doesn't supply that.

Many available on E-Bay....

I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Many fibre suppliers allow you to provide your own router. Mine does.

Mine provides its own router, and gives no indication it would assist me
in setting up a third party one.

[Graham J]

Roland Perry wrote:

[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

Your ISP will tell you the necessary login and password to put into the
router to establish a broadband connection.

In the early days of broadband we all had to do this for ourselves.
It's only fairly recently that ISPs have provided an autoconfiguration
mechanism for the routers that they supply - and that often goes wrong
if they haven't configured their systems correctly.

Your VoIP provider will tell you the parameters required for you to put
into the IP phone component of the Fritz!Box router.

It is fair to say that if you have a problem, your ISP may expect you to
use the router that they supplied before they will talk to you about
diagnosing the problem. Awkward if you don't have an internet
connection and are reliant on a VoIP system - especially when you live
in an area without mobile coverage!

[David Wade]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by David Wade

Post by David Wade

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range
 DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two". Anyway, I've
reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and  yes it
does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers  Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket
next to  that, marked  "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or
only  BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes
no  mention of  DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such
 Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own
proprietary VoIP  solutions.  You will be able to log into
Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't  know whether you get any option to
manage the VoIP settings.  You  may  be able to see some
settings in the BT Hub but any changes could  well  be limited
to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one
suited to  your other requirements, such as VPN support),
coupled with an  ATA or  VoIP base-station bought
independently.  You can then chose any  one of  a number of
VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary  configuration
details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

 I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic
users  mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet
connected desk  phones.

I think the Fritz!Box supports pulse dialing...

 My ISP doesn't supply that.

Many available on E-Bay....

I don't think my ISP would approve of me plugging it into the ONT, and
even if I did, how could I set it up to authenticate the connection?
As far as I can tell, the ISP's own router is supplied pre-set-up with
that.

You don't need to. You can use it as a downstream router, or switch, or
hub and just use the VOIP portion. I have a very locked-down fibre
service in Spain, and I just plugged the Fritz!box into that.

Or you can ask your ISP what you need to authenticate. Most will tell
you. If its BT there are none, well some default ones which google will
find.

Its the ONT that actually filters the data so they don't need an ID an
password.

In many cases the router isn't pre-configured, it uses a remote
configuration to obtain its setting.

Dave

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and
yes it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice
Customers Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to
that, marked "do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.

No, it's from someone with FTTP.

Post by Graham J
The mystery "Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate
modem, such as the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP
installations.

The FTTP ONT plugs it the red socket in the row of four,; the mystery
socket is a mystery.

Post by Graham J

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions. You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings. You may
be able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well
be limited to WiFi settings only.
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently. You can then chose any one of
a number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary
configuration details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

Back to my original question - which ATA for a pulse dial POTS phone?

Grandstream HT812
https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/datasheet_ht812_
english.pdf

That's been suggested before, but A&A reports issues with Grandstream
HT801, and It's not clear whether that also applies to HT812 or not (it
has no mentions of any kind, good or bad).

I think you’ll find there aren’t many other ATA vendors. Domestic users
mainly go for a DECT solution and corporates use Ethernet connected desk
phones.

This is a retro project, so I'm quite happy to buy one second-hand.

I have DECT too (but as far as I can see as I won't be buying telephony
from BT or EE, that means I have to plug my DECT base into a POTS
socket.

I don't need a desk phone (unless I choose to put the retro phone on my
desk, at the moment it's in the living room which is far more central in
the house, and easier to locate than my mobile which could be anywhere
in the house where I last put it down).

[David Wade]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Roland Perry
This is all very well, but the cause for concern is the range of the
DECT base built into the BT/Plusnet "Hub Two".
Anyway, I've reached out and had a look at one of those hubs, and yes
it does have a POTS socket on the back marked "Digital Voice Customers
Only". There's also a mystery "Broadband" socket next to that, marked
"do not use".

The model you're looking at is intended for ADSL or VDSL.  The mystery
"Broadband" socket is intended to connect to a separate modem, such as
the ONT that Openreach provide with their FTTP installations.

Post by Roland Perry
Next question: is that any "Digital Voice" service (eg A&A) or only
BT's? And the user manual that comes with the Hub makes no mention of
DECT at all. Maybe the online manuals go into more detail.

In my experience the BT Smart Hub 2 and related products such as the
Fritz!Box provided by Zen are configured for their own proprietary VoIP
solutions.  You will be able to log into Zen's Fritz!Box but I don't
know whether you get any option to manage the VoIP settings.  You may be
able to see some settings in the BT Hub but any changes could well be
limited to WiFi settings only.

I have a Fritz!Box from ZEN connected to voipfone.co.uk.

Post by Graham J
You would be better advised to use a simple router (or one suited to
your other requirements, such as VPN support), coupled with an ATA or
VoIP base-station bought independently.  You can then chose any one of a
number of VoIP providers, who will provide the necessary configuration
details for your ATA or VoIP phone system.

I like the Fritz!box ZEN provides. If you don't take ZENs voip you can
configure it to many third part SIP providers.

The VOIP is very versatile, so it can act as a SIP server so I have desk
SipPhone connected to it and I have a second Fritz!box (in Spain) with a
DECT handset, which also connects via the SIP server in the first.

It has VPN support (IPSec and WireGuard) and the performance of the VPN
is faster than my Vigour2862 which despite having 1gb ports can only
manage 60Mb throughput on the VPN.

My issues are is you can't have a timed re-boot and it only provides one
WiFi network (well two, one for each band)

No idea on the BT one but usually these are fully locked down

Dave

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired with
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal "BT"
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?) the
smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls, which an
external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not. The convertor /
paired socket is intended for people with an existing phone (or DECT base)
connected to the master socket using too much wire for it to reach the
Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).

It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub 2
itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back of it
(probably more functionality, like call history).

[Roland Perry]

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
the smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls, which
an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not. The
convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing phone
(or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much wire for
it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).
It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
of it (probably more functionality, like call history).

Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
rather than BT.

[Nick Finnigan]

Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however, would
be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A rather than BT.

Highly unlikely. My 'Phone' settings were disabled until BT switched me
to Digital Voice, and even now there are only DECT related settings available.

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
the smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls, which
an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not. The
convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing phone
(or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much wire for
it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).
It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
of it (probably more functionality, like call history).

Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
rather than BT.

The Smart Hub 2 (retail) only works with BT's Digital Voice.
The EE equivalent hub only works with the EE equivalent voice product.

But, of course, you can just not bother and use SIP from a device in
your network.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
the smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls,
which an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not.
The convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing
phone (or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much
wire for it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).
It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
of it (probably more functionality, like call history).

Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
rather than BT.

The Smart Hub 2 (retail) only works with BT's Digital Voice.
The EE equivalent hub only works with the EE equivalent voice product.
But, of course, you can just not bother and use SIP from a device in
your network.

BT/EE aren't allowing me to "bother", so that's even more minus points
for both organisations.

[Tweed]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
the smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls,
which an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not.
The convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing
phone (or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much
wire for it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).
It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
of it (probably more functionality, like call history).

Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
rather than BT.

The Smart Hub 2 (retail) only works with BT's Digital Voice.
The EE equivalent hub only works with the EE equivalent voice product.
But, of course, you can just not bother and use SIP from a device in
your network.

BT/EE aren't allowing me to "bother", so that's even more minus points
for both organisations.

BT want to use their Digital Voice service as a means of customer lock in.
It is intentionally not an open system.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Tweed

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Nick Finnigan

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Rupert Moss-Eccardt
BT also sell a DECT to traditional converter which can be paired
the hub (and presumably a DECT phone) which also has a normal
socket

Not sure what this "converter" is. My DECT base station has a cord with
a phone plug on the end.

The convertor allows you to plug in a wired phone into a socket and
that socket is DECT paired with the Smart Hub.

Oh, so as well as having a POTS connector on it (why not use that?)
the smart-hub is also a DECT base?

Yes. Using the built-in Smart Hub 2 DECT allows multiple calls,
which an external DECT base plugged into the POTS connector may not.
The convertor / paired socket is intended for people with an existing
phone (or DECT base) connected to the master socket using too much
wire for it to reach the Smart Hub 2 (needed after conversion to Digital Voice).
It is possible to have DECT handsets registered to both the Smart Hub
2 itself (better sound quality) and a DECT base plugged into the back
of it (probably more functionality, like call history).

Thanks, I'll see if I can get to play with that. First step, however,
would be to configure the Hub2 to work with a voice service like A&A
rather than BT.

The Smart Hub 2 (retail) only works with BT's Digital Voice.
The EE equivalent hub only works with the EE equivalent voice product.
But, of course, you can just not bother and use SIP from a device in
your network.

BT/EE aren't allowing me to "bother", so that's even more minus points
for both organisations.

BT want to use their Digital Voice service as a means of customer lock in.
It is intentionally not an open system.

Yes, that's why they get the negative points. Bell-heads who didn't get
the memo that OSI failed and the Internet's success is by and large
because it's an open system.