BT - End of POTS

[David Wade]

Is it just me, but is everything BT/Openreach says about the POTS switch
off plain lies, hype or smoke and mirrors?

So first despite all shouting about the delay of the digital switch over
from 2025 to 2027 which looks like a two year delay, in fact its
actually from Dec 2025 to 31st Jan 2027 so really only 13 months.

Now they have announced that they will still terminate all Wholesale
Line Rental Contracts in December 2025 and they can only be continued in
exceptional circumstances, and they still expect migrations to continue
at pace.....

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/07/openreach-notify-uk-isps-of-dec-2025-line-rental-contract-terminations.html

.... so I expect more vulnerable customers to be left without service.
From my experience many with Telecare don´t want it and are unable to
accept they are vunerable.....

Dave

[Graham J]

Post by David Wade
Is it just me, but is everything BT/Openreach says about the POTS switch
off plain lies, hype or smoke and mirrors?

[snip]

I've been following the Horizon IT scandal. The move away from POTS
exhibits the same top-level ignorance of technical details, and I expect
more problems as time passes.

For example:

= Some customers cannot get broadband. There appears to be no plan to
provide broadband to these people.

= Some customers can only get ADSL. While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP. For example
a technician touching a line with test equipment might only be noticed
as a "click" on POTS, but will cause a 2-minute break in the broadband
service as the modem component of the router re-synchronises. ADSL is
very vulnerable to electrical noise; it's unlikely that a connection
stays up for more than a few hours at a time.

= Some customers can only get VDSL. The same applies as above, except
that it goes a bit faster. It may be slightly more reliable because the
copper pair to the green cabinet is shorter than to the exchange, but
the faster speeds make it more susceptible to noise. So it's not really
suitable for VoIP.

= A few of us can get FTTP. It's ideal for VoIP. If FTTP fails, it is
likely to be for several hours or days, and users will have to make
their own alternative arrangements as they would for power failures.

But, the process of converting to FTTP means synchronising the transfer
of the landline phone service (POTS) to VoIP. This is possible where
the ISP already provides both services, and the user takes the default
(i.e. expensive) "digital voice" option. In all other circumstances
(voice and broadband from separate suppliers, and user wants an
independent VoIP provider other than the broadband service) the user
must control the timing of this for him/her-self. Most users won't
understand this, and will lose their cherished landline phone numbers as
a result.

All this is understood by people at the coalface in BT/Openreach, but I
doubt that senior management understands the issues despite being told.

[Andy Burns]

Some customers can only get ADSL.  While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP.  For example
a technician touching a line with test equipment might only be noticed
as a "click" on POTS, but will cause a 2-minute break in the broadband
service as the modem component of the router re-synchronises.  ADSL is
very vulnerable to electrical noise; it's unlikely that a connection
stays up for more than a few hours at a time.

Agreed I wouldn't like VoIP on ADSL, but those customers probably more
likely to get FTTP before 2027?

Some customers can only get VDSL.  The same applies as above, except
that it goes a bit faster.  It may be slightly more reliable because the
copper pair to the green cabinet is shorter than to the exchange, but
the faster speeds make it more susceptible to noise. So it's not really
suitable for VoIP.

I think you have too much of a downer on VDSL, I get good VoIP/Teams
performance, granted at 150m from cabinet, I do get as near as buggerit
top line rate.

[David Wade]

Post by Andy Burns

Some customers can only get ADSL.  While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP.  For
example a technician touching a line with test equipment might only be
noticed as a "click" on POTS, but will cause a 2-minute break in the
broadband service as the modem component of the router
re-synchronises.  ADSL is very vulnerable to electrical noise; it's
unlikely that a connection stays up for more than a few hours at a time.

Agreed I wouldn't like VoIP on ADSL, but those customers probably more
likely to get FTTP before 2027?

I understand BT/Openreach was in talks with Starlink with a view to
using their services to fill-in in remote areas....

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/01/bt-and-ee-explore-starlink-to-boost-uk-broadband-and-mobile.html

.. also with OneWeb...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/07/bt-and-onewebs-rural-broadband-trial-goes-live-in-devon-uk.html

these services apparently have low enough latency to deliver voip...

Post by Andy Burns

Some customers can only get VDSL.  The same applies as above, except
that it goes a bit faster.  It may be slightly more reliable because
the copper pair to the green cabinet is shorter than to the exchange,
but the faster speeds make it more susceptible to noise. So it's not
really suitable for VoIP.

I think you have too much of a downer on VDSL, I get good VoIP/Teams
performance, granted at 150m from cabinet, I do get as near as buggerit
top line rate.

I agree. When I had FTTC I made extensive use of Teams and Zoom
throughout lockdown with no issues. I have also used Skype from time to
time, again with no issues, so why should "real voip" be any different.

Dave

[Bob Eager]

Post by Andy Burns
I think you have too much of a downer on VDSL, I get good VoIP/Teams
performance, granted at 150m from cabinet, I do get as near as buggerit
top line rate.

I used DSL for VoIP fo over 10 years. The green cabinet is 1400 metres
away. Never a problem.

[Richmond]

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Andy Burns
I think you have too much of a downer on VDSL, I get good VoIP/Teams
performance, granted at 150m from cabinet, I do get as near as buggerit
top line rate.

I used DSL for VoIP fo over 10 years. The green cabinet is 1400 metres
away. Never a problem.

My line goes to an exchange about 1000 metres away, no problems here
either.

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by Andy Burns
Agreed I wouldn't like VoIP on ADSL,

But you dont mind GSM voice at 13.3 kbits ?

[Andy Burns]

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by Andy Burns
Agreed I wouldn't like VoIP on ADSL,

But you dont mind GSM voice at 13.3 kbits ?

But with GSM

a) the expectation is lower fidelity to start with

b) the voice has a fixed time slot, not fighting with other data

[Tweed]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by Andy Burns
Agreed I wouldn't like VoIP on ADSL,

But you dont mind GSM voice at 13.3 kbits ?

But with GSM
a) the expectation is lower fidelity to start with
b) the voice has a fixed time slot, not fighting with other data

Mobile telephony usually uses better codecs and bit rates than the original
GSM spec these days.

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by Tweed
Mobile telephony usually uses better codecs and bit rates than the original
GSM spec these days.

Although voice quality shows no signs of improvement.


I think some people have a distorted view of the amount of bandwidth
required for audio - a stereo pair from a CD requires less than 1.5 Mbits


Also, I dont know whats going on with "later" 4G / LTE / 5G codecs, but
I believe that the first 3g codecs were engineered to use even less
bandwidth than GSM

[Tweed]

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by Tweed
Mobile telephony usually uses better codecs and bit rates than the original
GSM spec these days.

Although voice quality shows no signs of improvement.
I think some people have a distorted view of the amount of bandwidth
required for audio - a stereo pair from a CD requires less than 1.5 Mbits
Also, I dont know whats going on with "later" 4G / LTE / 5G codecs, but
I believe that the first 3g codecs were engineered to use even less
bandwidth than GSM

Well I’d disagree about no signs of improvement. I have regular phone calls
via my Vodafone connected iPhone and the voice quality is excellent.

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by Tweed
Well I’d disagree about no signs of improvement. I have regular phone calls
via my Vodafone connected iPhone and the voice quality is excellent.

but all a bit subjective - in the same way that some people say that CD
sound quality is "excellent"

Similarly, there were massive improvements in the quality of domestic TV
sets in the 50 years before the analogue transmitters were turned off
(around 2014 ?) but in fact almost nothing had been done to improve the
system.

(I would go even further and suggest that current "non HD" DVB pictures
are not noticeably better either)

[JMB99]

Post by Abandoned Trolley
Similarly, there were massive improvements in the quality of domestic TV
sets in the 50 years before the analogue transmitters were turned off
(around 2014 ?) but in fact almost nothing had been done to improve the
system.

I think you will find there were many improvements made to the system
during that time?

What improvements been made to DTT and Satellite TV?

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by JMB99
I think you will find there were many improvements made to the system
during that time?

Really ?

Can you name a few of them ?

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by JMB99
I think you will find there were many improvements made to the system
during that time?

Really ?
Can you name a few of them ?

hmm ... that seems to have gone a bit quiet

[Marco Moock]

Post by Abandoned Trolley
Although voice quality shows no signs of improvement.

There is, but only reasonable when both ends support it.
For normal phone calls, the good old 3.5 kHz are enough in my opinion.
I still use grandmothers Siemens FeTAp 791 from 1980 and it has a
better quality than some mobile phones.

[Graham J]

Post by Andy Burns
Agreed I wouldn't like VoIP on ADSL,

But you don't mind GSM voice at 13.3 kbits ?

I hate that also. It's evident wherever somebody is interviewed over a
mobile phone connection for a news program that it's very poor quality.
I'm very surprised that broadcasters tolerate it. They would be much
better advised to report the substance of the interview or re-voice it
using an actor.

But the point I tried very hard to make about ADSL is the poor
reliability of connection, not its speed.

[Marco Moock]

Post by Graham J
But the point I tried very hard to make about ADSL is the poor
reliability of connection, not its speed.

At least in Germany ADSL(2+) works fine if the line isn't too long or
broken.

[Graham J]

Post by Marco Moock

Post by Graham J
But the point I tried very hard to make about ADSL is the poor
reliability of connection, not its speed.

At least in Germany ADSL(2+) works fine if the line isn't too long or
broken.

I accept that it may be much better in Germany. I was commenting about
reliability in the UK.

[Graham J]

Post by Andy Burns

Some customers can only get ADSL.  While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP.  For
example a technician touching a line with test equipment might only be
noticed as a "click" on POTS, but will cause a 2-minute break in the
broadband service as the modem component of the router
re-synchronises.  ADSL is very vulnerable to electrical noise; it's
unlikely that a connection stays up for more than a few hours at a time.

Agreed I wouldn't like VoIP on ADSL, but those customers probably more
likely to get FTTP before 2027?

Not from what I've seen. I don't think the conversion to FTTP depends
on users having poor ADSL. It's more likely to depend on the revenue to
be gained from a large number of users being converted in one operation.

Post by Andy Burns

Some customers can only get VDSL.  The same applies as above, except
that it goes a bit faster.  It may be slightly more reliable because
the copper pair to the green cabinet is shorter than to the exchange,
but the faster speeds make it more susceptible to noise. So it's not
really suitable for VoIP.

I think you have too much of a downer on VDSL, I get good VoIP/Teams
performance, granted at 150m from cabinet, I do get as near as buggerit
top line rate.

But 150m is exceptional. VDSL works up to about 1.3km so the average
is about 700m. I've seen several such connections (OK not a
statistically significant number) which only stay up for tens of hours.
Line drops are random so it's really difficult to get them fixed.
Openreach is not pro-active in remedying such faults: it relies on the
user reporting them through their ISP.

[JMB99]

= Some customers cannot get broadband.  There appears to be no plan to
provide broadband to these people.

Local BT man told me they would be done first, including who just have a
very poor quality voice connection?

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by Graham J
But, the process of converting to FTTP means synchronising the transfer
of the landline phone service (POTS) to VoIP. This is possible where
the ISP already provides both services, and the user takes the default
(i.e. expensive) "digital voice" option. In all other circumstances
(voice and broadband from separate suppliers, and user wants an
independent VoIP provider other than the broadband service) the user
must control the timing of this for him/her-self. Most users won't
understand this, and will lose their cherished landline phone numbers as
a result.

Zen did it for me, and BT did it for my ex. Both locations upgraded
from VDSL to FTTC with VOIP included. Everything worked and continues
to do so and we've both kept our previous landline phone numbers.

I suppose it can fail like anything else, so maybe what's needed is
more attention to that, but when it does work it's brilliant.

Rod.

[Richmond]

Post by Graham J
= Some customers can only get ADSL. While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP. For
example a technician touching a line with test equipment might only be
noticed as a "click" on POTS, but will cause a 2-minute break in the
broadband service as the modem component of the router
re-synchronises. ADSL is very vulnerable to electrical noise; it's
unlikely that a connection stays up for more than a few hours at a
time.

I use VOIP (Voipfone) with ADSL (using a phone socket on the router) and
I don't have any problems. I have never had a 2 hour conversation
though. I do listen to streaming services for longer than that. When you
say "it's unlikely that a connection stays up for more than a few hours"
do you mean a VOIP connection? How would I check this? somewhere in the
router perhaps. Broadband stays up for days as far as I know, I watch
Netflix, iplayer etc.

[Andy Burns]

When you say "it's unlikely that a connection stays up for more than
a few hours" do you mean a VOIP connection?

When I was on ADSL I got several (on bad days, hundreds of) retrains per
day, VoIP on top of that would have been ghastly, since moving to VDSL
uptimes are measured in months, not hours.

[Davey]

On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 11:23:39 +0100

Post by Andy Burns

When you say "it's unlikely that a connection stays up for more than
a few hours" do you mean a VOIP connection?

When I was on ADSL I got several (on bad days, hundreds of) retrains
per day, VoIP on top of that would have been ghastly, since moving to
VDSL uptimes are measured in months, not hours.

I have just checked my ADSL router, it says "connected since 06/07/2024,
01:15". I probably wasn't online to notice an interruption at that
hour, and the only service problem I have had in the last several
months was when Openreach were doing some maintenance/repair, which
affected lots of properties. I can watch streamed TV with no trouble at
all.
The box says: "Throughput: ↓ 18.3 Mbit/s ↑ 1.1 Mbit/s".

[Graham J]

Richmond wrote:

[snip]

Post by Richmond
When you
say "it's unlikely that a connection stays up for more than a few hours"
do you mean a VOIP connection? How would I check this? somewhere in the
router perhaps. Broadband stays up for days as far as I know, I watch
Netflix, iplayer etc.

I mean the broadband service (ADSL or VDSL). You can find this out from
your router. You can also get a graph of failures using F8Lure - see:

<https://f8lure.mouselike.org/index.asp?DoAction=Examples>

Note that this does not work with the FRITZ!Box 7530 router provided by
Zen and others because that router does not reliably respond to pings
from the internet. This is a conspiracy to prevent users from being
able to find out how bad their service really is.

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by Graham J

Post by David Wade
Is it just me, but is everything BT/Openreach says about the POTS switch
off plain lies, hype or smoke and mirrors?

[snip]
I've been following the Horizon IT scandal. The move away from POTS
exhibits the same top-level ignorance of technical details, and I expect
more problems as time passes.
= Some customers cannot get broadband. There appears to be no plan to
provide broadband to these people.

Indeed. They keep POTS.

Post by Graham J
= Some customers can only get ADSL. While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP. For example
a technician touching a line with test equipment might only be noticed
as a "click" on POTS, but will cause a 2-minute break in the broadband
service as the modem component of the router re-synchronises. ADSL is
very vulnerable to electrical noise; it's unlikely that a connection
stays up for more than a few hours at a time.

There are plenty of organisations that have been using ADSL for public
safety activities. Yes, there are places where ADSL is not good enough
to alternatives are used but I know of a significant number of
"important places" where ADSL was all there was. Yes, typically with
two connections, coming in from different POPs but still ADSL.

Post by Graham J
= Some customers can only get VDSL. The same applies as above, except
that it goes a bit faster. It may be slightly more reliable because the
copper pair to the green cabinet is shorter than to the exchange, but
the faster speeds make it more susceptible to noise. So it's not really
suitable for VoIP.

As above. Hundreds and hundreds of locations use VDSL for important
stuff. Interestingly, where the various municipal buildings are all in
one place 30s-style and haven't moved then the police station, say, may
be directly-connected to the exchange the other side of the wall so no
cabinet. That is being dealt with but they are currently stuck with
ADSL or leased lines.

[Marco Moock]

Post by Graham J
= Some customers can only get ADSL. While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP.

ADSL supports up to 8 MBit/s and ADSL2+ up to 24, if the line is good
enough. VoIP works with more than 1 MBit/s if no other traffic is
there. QoS must be implemented.
I used VoIP via ADSL for years.

Post by Graham J
For example a technician touching a line with test equipment might only
be noticed as a "click" on POTS, but will cause a 2-minute break in
the broadband service as the modem component of the router
re-synchronises. ADSL is very vulnerable to electrical noise; it's
unlikely that a connection stays up for more than a few hours at a
time.

I've never experienced that in many years, ADSL was stable.

Post by Graham J
= Some customers can only get VDSL. The same applies as above,
except that it goes a bit faster. It may be slightly more reliable
because the copper pair to the green cabinet is shorter than to the
exchange, but the faster speeds make it more susceptible to noise. So
it's not really suitable for VoIP.

I do VoIP phone calls via VDSL for years. Works fine. I have 40 MBit/s
up and 70 down. It is also reliable. I had outages, but I doubt this
was because of noise. I assume DSLAM restarts or controlled disconnects
for patching work.

[Graham J]

Post by Marco Moock

Post by Graham J
= Some customers can only get ADSL. While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP.

ADSL supports up to 8 MBit/s and ADSL2+ up to 24, if the line is good
enough. VoIP works with more than 1 MBit/s if no other traffic is
there. QoS must be implemented.
I used VoIP via ADSL for years.

My point was about the reliability of the connection, not its speed.
You may be lucky, but the I see the people who have problems. So I
think my generalisation stands: ADSL and VDSL are not reliable enough
for VoIP; but FTTP is.

[Bob Eager]

Post by Marco Moock

Post by Graham J
= Some customers can only get ADSL. While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP.

ADSL supports up to 8 MBit/s and ADSL2+ up to 24, if the line is good
enough. VoIP works with more than 1 MBit/s if no other traffic is
there. QoS must be implemented.
I used VoIP via ADSL for years.

My point was about the reliability of the connection, not its speed. You
may be lucky, but the I see the people who have problems. So I think my
generalisation stands: ADSL and VDSL are not reliable enough for VoIP;
but FTTP is.

I have run VoIP over *DSL for over ten years. First ADSL, then VDSL.

I have had no reliability problems at all. Apart from the time road
repairers cut through a 100 pair down the road (fixed really quickly; the
BR station was out).

Oh, and I'm 1.4km from the green cabinet, and twice that from the
exchange. Sppeeds with VDSL were 16 Mb/s down and about 2.3 Mb/s up.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Marco Moock

Post by Graham J
= Some customers can only get ADSL. While sufficiently reliable for
emails and (slow) browsing, it's not good enough for VoIP.

ADSL supports up to 8 MBit/s and ADSL2+ up to 24, if the line is good
enough. VoIP works with more than 1 MBit/s if no other traffic is
there. QoS must be implemented.
I used VoIP via ADSL for years.

My point was about the reliability of the connection, not its speed. You
may be lucky, but the I see the people who have problems. So I think my
generalisation stands: ADSL and VDSL are not reliable enough for VoIP;
but FTTP is.

I have run VoIP over *DSL for over ten years. First ADSL, then VDSL.
I have had no reliability problems at all. Apart from the time road
repairers cut through a 100 pair down the road (fixed really quickly; the
BR station was out).
Oh, and I'm 1.4km from the green cabinet, and twice that from the
exchange. Sppeeds with VDSL were 16 Mb/s down and about 2.3 Mb/s up.

At our last house we had 5.5 km of cable to the exchange, the ASDL was
slow (circa 1.5 Megs) but I don't recall any instability.

When we moved to FTTC, we still had 1.2 km of copper involved, but
started at 26 Mb/s in 2009, which crept up to 36 when we moved out in
2019. Again, I don't recall problems, and I was regularly using Skype
etc during most of that decade (before Covid made such things really
popular) without issue

[Marco Moock]

Post by Graham J
My point was about the reliability of the connection, not its speed.
You may be lucky, but the I see the people who have problems. So I
think my generalisation stands: ADSL and VDSL are not reliable enough
for VoIP; but FTTP is.

At least in Germany, this is mostly related to the length. I know users
in rural areas that have connection problems because line attenuation
is that high that the connection is not reliable. Although, that only
affects rural areas because otherwise the DSLAM is nearby (especially
with VDSL).

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by David Wade
Is it just me, but is everything BT/Openreach says about the POTS switch
off plain lies, hype or smoke and mirrors?
So first despite all shouting about the delay of the digital switch over
from 2025 to 2027 which looks like a two year delay, in fact its actually
from Dec 2025 to 31st Jan 2027 so really only 13 months.
Now they have announced that they will still terminate all Wholesale Line
Rental Contracts in December 2025 and they can only be continued in
exceptional circumstances, and they still expect migrations to continue at
pace.....
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/07/openreach-notify-uk-isps-of-dec-2025-line-rental-contract-terminations.html

I did not spot 'exceptional circumstances' there, mainly that they want
to reduce the notice period to 90 days.

Post by David Wade
.... so I expect more vulnerable customers to be left without service. From
my experience many with Telecare don´t want it and are unable to accept
they are vunerable.....
Dave

[Andy Burns]

Post by David Wade
Now they have announced that they will still terminate all Wholesale
Line Rental Contracts in December 2025 and they can only be continued in
exceptional circumstances, and they still expect migrations to continue
at pace.....

My plusnet FTTC service is nearing the end of minimum contract, I can

a) let it roll-on out of contract, with price increasing from £29.62 to
£58.69, no thanks.

b) renew it with landline at £28.50 for 12 months

c) renew it with landline at £27.99 for 18 months, oooh a whole 51p discount

d) "upgrade" to SOGEA without voice at £24.49 for 24 months

I think a few months ago, they were offering to charge more to not have
a landline, than to have one!

I'm thinking of biting the bullet and going with option "d" now, I can
see this is the last renewal where I'll have any choice anyway.

There ought to be enough experience of reclaiming the ceased PSTN number
onto my existing voipfone account by now? Adding an extra number should
increase my voip bill by £3.60 and reduce my broadband bill by £5.13 and
means it gets the porting done. I'll speak to then next week I think.

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by David Wade
Now they have announced that they will still terminate all Wholesale Line
Rental Contracts in December 2025 and they can only be continued in
exceptional circumstances, and they still expect migrations to continue
at pace.....

My plusnet FTTC service is nearing the end of minimum contract, I can
a) let it roll-on out of contract, with price increasing from £29.62 to
£58.69, no thanks.
b) renew it with landline at £28.50 for 12 months
c) renew it with landline at £27.99 for 18 months, oooh a whole 51p discount
d) "upgrade" to SOGEA without voice at £24.49 for 24 months
I think a few months ago, they were offering to charge more to not have a
landline, than to have one!
I'm thinking of biting the bullet and going with option "d" now, I can see
this is the last renewal where I'll have any choice anyway.
There ought to be enough experience of reclaiming the ceased PSTN number
onto my existing voipfone account by now?  Adding an extra number should
increase my voip bill by £3.60 and reduce my broadband bill by £5.13 and
means it gets the porting done.  I'll speak to then next week I think.

BT are offering me £29.99 to renew my 'Broadband and landline' SOGEA -
but I had to ring up and speak to a 'guide' to get that price.

[Graham J]

Andy Burns wrote:

[snip]

Post by Andy Burns
I'm thinking of biting the bullet and going with option "d" now, I can
see this is the last renewal where I'll have any choice anyway.
There ought to be enough experience of reclaiming the ceased PSTN number
onto my existing voipfone account by now?  Adding an extra number should
increase my voip bill by £3.60 and reduce my broadband bill by £5.13 and
means it gets the porting done.  I'll speak to then next week I think.

Talk to Voipfone first, and make sure you do things in the correct order.

[RayG]

Is it just me, but is everything BT/Openreach says about the POTS switch off
plain lies, hype or smoke and mirrors?
So first despite all shouting about the delay of the digital switch over from
2025 to 2027 which looks like a two year delay, in fact its actually from Dec
2025 to 31st Jan 2027 so really only 13 months.
Now they have announced that they will still terminate all Wholesale Line Rental
Contracts in December 2025 and they can only be continued in exceptional
circumstances, and they still expect migrations to continue at pace.....
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/07/openreach-notify-uk-isps-of-dec-2025-line-rental-contract-terminations.html
.... so I expect more vulnerable customers to be left without service. From my
experience many with Telecare don´t want it and are unable to accept they are
vunerable.....
Dave

I have still not had a working digital phone line since November 2023.

EE Cannot work out what is going wrong but they do not seem to be able to
dispatch a human being to diagnose the fault.

Everything in my set-up has been changed but it still fails after a few days.
Only a hub reboot will fix it.

It has to be a bug in the Hub or something between the Hub and wherever it goes
next. (local cabinet/Exchange - whatever that is these days)

The Broadband has never failed and I get excellent speeds.

I cannot believe I am the only one suffering from this.

Go Figure.

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by RayG

Is it just me, but is everything BT/Openreach says about the POTS switch off
plain lies, hype or smoke and mirrors?
So first despite all shouting about the delay of the digital switch over from
2025 to 2027 which looks like a two year delay, in fact its actually from Dec
2025 to 31st Jan 2027 so really only 13 months.
Now they have announced that they will still terminate all Wholesale Line Rental
Contracts in December 2025 and they can only be continued in exceptional
circumstances, and they still expect migrations to continue at pace.....
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/07/openreach-notify-uk-isps-of-dec-2025-line-rental-contract-terminations.html
.... so I expect more vulnerable customers to be left without service. From my
experience many with Telecare don´t want it and are unable to accept they are
vunerable.....
Dave

I have still not had a working digital phone line since November 2023.
EE Cannot work out what is going wrong but they do not seem to be able to
dispatch a human being to diagnose the fault.
Everything in my set-up has been changed but it still fails after a few days.
Only a hub reboot will fix it.
It has to be a bug in the Hub or something between the Hub and wherever it goes
next. (local cabinet/Exchange - whatever that is these days)
The Broadband has never failed and I get excellent speeds.
I cannot believe I am the only one suffering from this.
Go Figure.
--

I have a similar fault but manage up to a fortnight between failures.
But it might be something like 7 days since the last successful call.

The symptoms suggest that SIP is working but the media stream isn't
established

[Graham J]

RayG wrote:

[snip]

Post by RayG
I have still not had a working digital phone line since November 2023.
EE Cannot work out what is going wrong but they do not seem to be able
to dispatch a human being to diagnose the fault.
Everything in my set-up has been changed but it still fails after a few
days. Only a hub reboot will fix it.
It has to be a bug in the Hub or something between the Hub and wherever
it goes next. (local cabinet/Exchange - whatever that is these days)
The Broadband has never failed and I get excellent speeds.

Change your VoIP provider.

BT/Openreach in particular seem to have problems as reported here a few
months ago, with voice randomly failing in one direction or the other.