VDSL Unreliability - new thread

[Graham J]

This continues a thread I started a while ago, but is a new question. I
suspect the problem is impulsive interference occurring overnight.

Zen want me to use the FRITZ!Box 7530, but this doesn't work with F8Lure
because it doesn't reliably respond to pings from the internet. So it's
no good for monitoring the connection.

However the FRITZ!Box 7530 has a setting to "increase resistance to
impulsive interference" - or words to that effect. Does anybody know
what this actually does, please?

[Theo]

Post by Graham J
This continues a thread I started a while ago, but is a new question. I
suspect the problem is impulsive interference occurring overnight.
Zen want me to use the FRITZ!Box 7530, but this doesn't work with F8Lure
because it doesn't reliably respond to pings from the internet. So it's
no good for monitoring the connection.

According to your previous thread, that was because Fritzboxen only reply to
one ping at a time. F8Lure pings from two separate IPs (their own and one
at AAISP) so the router may drop packets if they coincide.

Have you tried looking for another ping monitoring service that only pings
from one IP? That would seem to work around the router limitation. There
seem to be a lot of services out there. Perhaps there's a basic version
that only pings from a single IP (many of them have 'pricing plans' with all
sorts of fancy features - perhaps one limits to a single source to encourage
people to pay for fancier features)?

You could also I suppose hack up something you run yourself. eg (excuse my
terrible awk):

$ ping example.com
PING example.com (93.184.215.14) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 93.184.215.14: icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=84.7 ms
64 bytes from 93.184.215.14: icmp_seq=2 ttl=54 time=84.6 ms
64 bytes from 93.184.215.14: icmp_seq=3 ttl=54 time=85.3 ms
64 bytes from 93.184.215.14: icmp_seq=4 ttl=54 time=83.7 ms

$ ping example.com | awk '{print $5,$7}'
bytes data.
icmp_seq=1 time=86.7
icmp_seq=2 time=85.7
icmp_seq=3 time=85.0
icmp_seq=4 time=86.0

$ ping example.com | awk '{equ=index($5,"=");$5=substr($5,equ+1);equ=index($7,"=");$7=substr($7,equ+1);print $5 "," $7}'
1,86.4
2,86.2
3,84.1
4,86.2
5,84.5
6,84.8
7,85.6
8,85.6
9,83.8
10,84.7
11,86.0
12,83.7
13,85.6

which gives you CSV you can spreadsheet. Not pretty but maybe it does the
job?.

Although it may not help if your router is also getting pinged by bad actors
on the internet, since it may decide to reject some of your pings. However,
since you're rolling your own, you can switch to other tools like tcping
(Linux) or PsPing (Windows) and ping a (forwarded) TCP port instead of using
ICMP pings.

Depends how deep down this rabbit hole you want to go, I suppose.

Post by Graham J
However the FRITZ!Box 7530 has a setting to "increase resistance to
impulsive interference" - or words to that effect. Does anybody know
what this actually does, please?

"Impulse Noise Protection (INP) Impulse noise protection: The higher the
value displayed here, the lower the impulse noise."

seems to be related to G.INP:
https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/retransmission.htm

Theo

[Graham J]

Post by Theo

Post by Graham J
This continues a thread I started a while ago, but is a new question. I
suspect the problem is impulsive interference occurring overnight.
Zen want me to use the FRITZ!Box 7530, but this doesn't work with F8Lure
because it doesn't reliably respond to pings from the internet. So it's
no good for monitoring the connection.

According to your previous thread, that was because Fritzboxen only reply to
one ping at a time. F8Lure pings from two separate IPs (their own and one
at AAISP) so the router may drop packets if they coincide.

[snip]

You may be right, but information from AVM suggests that this is a
Denial of Service protection. Repeated pings (not clear whether from
the same IP or not) are increasingly delayed.

You can see this on a F8Lure display. From initially connecting the
Fritzbox there are good replies for about an hour, with occasional
replies dropped. After that the packet delay increases during the
succeeding 24 hours rising so about 300 mS. After that the delay is
about 500 mS so is seen as total loss - this continues for a further 24
hours.. Then the DoS protection is reset and I see reliable pings for
an hour or so. This cycle of a bit over 48-hours repeats indefinitely.

It's easier for you to set this up for yourself.

It does not seem to have occurred to AVM to protect the router with an
Access Control List for pings. I have suggested it to them.

Post by Theo

Post by Graham J
However the FRITZ!Box 7530 has a setting to "increase resistance to
impulsive interference" - or words to that effect. Does anybody know
what this actually does, please?

"Impulse Noise Protection (INP) Impulse noise protection: The higher the
value displayed here, the lower the impulse noise."

Is this a guess, or can you quote a reliable source?

I think it can be enabled on the Vigor 2763 but I suspect it requires an
alternate modem code.

[Theo]

Post by Graham J

"Impulse Noise Protection (INP) Impulse noise protection: The higher the
value displayed here, the lower the impulse noise."

Is this a guess, or can you quote a reliable source?

https://help.avm.de/fritzbox.php?oem=avme&hardware=256&language=en&set=007&topic=hilfe_dslinfo_ADSL&deviceFeatures=1001001111110101011011110100111100011001111100&userSettings=0100

and similar AVM pages. I don't know which Fritzboxen they refer to.

oh, actually if you trim from &language onwards it gets redirected to an
error page:
https://service.avm.de/help/FRITZ-Box-7530-AX-avme/:filename

(note the 7530AX is different hardware to the 7530)

Theo

[Brian Gregory]

Post by Graham J

Post by Theo

This continues a thread I started a while ago, but is a new question.  I
suspect the problem is impulsive interference occurring overnight.
Zen want me to use the FRITZ!Box 7530, but this doesn't work with F8Lure
because it doesn't reliably respond to pings from the internet.  So it's
no good for monitoring the connection.

According to your previous thread, that was because Fritzboxen only reply to
one ping at a time.  F8Lure pings from two separate IPs (their own and
one
at AAISP) so the router may drop packets if they coincide.

[snip]
You may be right, but information from AVM suggests that this is a
Denial of Service protection.  Repeated pings (not clear whether from
the same IP or not) are increasingly delayed.
You can see this on a F8Lure display.  From initially connecting the
Fritzbox there are good replies for about an hour, with occasional
replies dropped.  After that the packet delay increases during the
succeeding 24 hours rising so about 300 mS.  After that the delay is
about 500 mS so is seen as total loss - this continues for a further 24
hours..  Then the DoS protection is reset and I see reliable pings for
an hour or so.  This cycle of a bit over 48-hours repeats indefinitely.
It's easier for you to set this up for yourself.
It does not seem to have occurred to AVM to protect the router with an
Access Control List for pings.  I have suggested it to them.

Post by Theo

However the FRITZ!Box 7530 has a setting to "increase resistance to
impulsive interference" - or words to that effect.  Does anybody know
what this actually does, please?

"Impulse Noise Protection (INP)     Impulse noise protection: The
higher the
value displayed here, the lower the impulse noise."

Is this a guess, or can you quote a reliable source?
I think it can be enabled on the Vigor 2763 but I suspect it requires an
alternate modem code.

G.INP is a relatively no extension to VDSL2. It wasn't on all VDSL
modems when BT/OR first started using it. e.g. with the HG612 it was an
upgrade that the modems received at a certain point. The two ends
negotiate when the connection is established and if they both support
G.INP it should be used automatically.

However I believe it's only used in the download direction due to a bug
in the implementation of G.INP on some modems.