Plans to boost resilience of 999 system announced

[Java Jive]

Plans to boost resilience of 999 system announced
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68625233

"The government has announced new measures it says will boost the
resilience of the 999 system, following its worst outage in almost 90 years.

A nationwide technical issue meant calls were not connected to emergency
services in June 2023.

The government will increase its oversight of any future incidents and
improve communications between emergency services.

BT, which manages the system, says it "fell short of its own high
standards."

Ofcom is investigating the telecoms firm, which took responsibility for
the fault, with the outcome expected in the coming months."

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by Java Jive
Plans to boost resilience of 999 system announced
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68625233
"The government has announced new measures it says will boost the
resilience of the 999 system, following its worst outage in almost 90 years.
A nationwide technical issue meant calls were not connected to emergency
services in June 2023.
The government will increase its oversight of any future incidents and
improve communications between emergency services.
BT, which manages the system, says it "fell short of its own high
standards."
Ofcom is investigating the telecoms firm, which took responsibility for
the fault, with the outcome expected in the coming months."

I am not completely sure that this is "news"

Some of these enhancements were supposed to be implemented when the
ESMCP was rolled out - but that was kicked off more than 10 years ago.

[JMB99]

Post by Abandoned Trolley
I am not completely sure that this is "news"
Some of these enhancements were supposed to be implemented when the
ESMCP was rolled out - but that was kicked off more than 10 years ago.

I think it has been standard for years for all the emergency services to
be able to hand over to adjacent areas in the event of failures or
extremely busy periods.

On several occasions the Scottish Ambulance Service had to reroute all
999 calls to Northern Ireland and they did the control and dispatching
of ambulances from there - pre-AIRWAVE and whatever they have now.

[Andy Burns]

Post by JMB99

Post by Abandoned Trolley
I am not completely sure that this is "news"
Some of these enhancements were supposed to be implemented when the
ESMCP was rolled out - but that was kicked off more than 10 years ago.

There are some voices within the service I'm most familiar with who say
"It'll never happen"

Post by JMB99
I think it has been standard for years for all the emergency services to
be able to hand over to adjacent areas in the event of failures or
extremely busy periods.

Yes, and not always adjacent, can be the opposite end of the country.

[Woody]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by JMB99

Post by Abandoned Trolley
I am not completely sure that this is "news"
Some of these enhancements were supposed to be implemented when the
ESMCP was rolled out - but that was kicked off more than 10 years ago.

There are some voices within the service I'm most familiar with who say
"It'll never happen"

Post by JMB99
I think it has been standard for years for all the emergency services
to be able to hand over to adjacent areas in the event of failures or
extremely busy periods.

Yes, and not always adjacent, can be the opposite end of the country.

Correct. N Yorks hand off to Cornwall (or is that Devon and Cornwall or
SWAS?)

[NY]

Post by Woody

Post by Andy Burns

Post by JMB99

Post by Abandoned Trolley
I am not completely sure that this is "news"
Some of these enhancements were supposed to be implemented when the
ESMCP was rolled out - but that was kicked off more than 10 years ago.

There are some voices within the service I'm most familiar with who
say "It'll never happen"

Post by JMB99
I think it has been standard for years for all the emergency services
to be able to hand over to adjacent areas in the event of failures or
extremely busy periods.

Yes, and not always adjacent, can be the opposite end of the country.

Correct. N Yorks hand off to Cornwall (or is that Devon and Cornwall or
SWAS?)

I've read somewhere that the choice of a faraway backup centre is
deliberate, to cope with widespread disasters which might affect a
neighbouring ambulance region as well as the one which would normally
handle the call. The thinking is that if you are in Yorkshire, it has to
be a bloody big disaster also to affect Cornwall, but it might affect,
for example, Lancashire.

[Andy Burns]

Post by NY

Post by Woody

Post by Andy Burns

Post by JMB99
I think it has been standard for years for all the emergency
services to be able to hand over to adjacent areas in the event of
failures or extremely busy periods.

Yes, and not always adjacent, can be the opposite end of the country.

Correct. N Yorks hand off to Cornwall (or is that Devon and Cornwall
or SWAS?)

I've read somewhere that the choice of a faraway backup centre is
deliberate, to cope with widespread disasters which might affect a
neighbouring ambulance region as well as the one which would normally
handle the call. The thinking is that if you are in Yorkshire, it has to
be a bloody big disaster also to affect Cornwall, but it might affect,
for example, Lancashire.

Correct, but local knowledge (e.g. road names/numbers) is not likely to
be as good, perhaps not as critical as it once was, with EISEC knowing
mobile location etc.

[JMB99]

Post by Andy Burns
Correct, but local knowledge (e.g. road names/numbers) is not likely to
be as good, perhaps not as critical as it once was, with EISEC knowing
mobile location etc.

All emergency services and other call centres seem to rely heavily on
online mapping systems rather than local knowledge.

[NY]

Post by JMB99

Post by Andy Burns
Correct, but local knowledge (e.g. road names/numbers) is not likely
to be as good, perhaps not as critical as it once was, with EISEC
knowing mobile location etc.

All emergency services and other call centres seem to rely heavily on
online mapping systems rather than local knowledge.

Unfortunately they are at the mercy of how good the search facilities
are on the mapping database.

When the "M1 A 123.4" signs every 500 metres were first introduced, I
was driving on the M1 somewhere in Derbyshire or Nottinghamshire, a long
way from my start and end points. I'd no idea exactly where I was, in
terms of junctions.

I saw a car crash on the opposite carriageway so I dialled 999 and
reported it: "Crash on M1 northbound. I have just passed sign "M1 A
123,4" on the southbound carriageway and the crash is about a mile north
of that point on the opposite, northbound carriageway".

Clear and unambiguous, you'd think. No. The police emergency operator
did not have a *clue* how to process that information. He wanted a
postcode (random places on a motorway don't have postcodes allocated to
them) or the last junction I'd passed (no idea - wasn't paying attention
because I know I'm a long way short of where I will leave the motorway).

I offered to stop and read the old-fashioned number from the red and
white marked posts on the hard shoulder. No better - his system couldn't
handle that info either. If I didn't have a postcode or a road name or a
junction number, he was stuffed.

This was in the days of non-smart phones, so my phone didn't have a GPS
for me to read OS grid reference or latitude/longitude - though I wonder
whether that would have helped at all...

I emailed the police force when I got back to report the problem, in
case it was a system or training problem. I had a response from a senior
officer who was appalled at the problem and had pulled the recording of
my call, which he agreed was unambiguous and concise. He had identified
"a training issue".

[Graham J]

NY wrote:

[snip]

Post by NY
I emailed the police force when I got back to report the problem, in
case it was a system or training problem. I had a response from a senior
officer who was appalled at the problem and had pulled the recording of
my call, which he agreed was unambiguous and concise. He had identified
"a training issue".

I suspect the same problem with "wot free werds".

I can imagine calling the police with 'Colchester Town Hall' and their
response being to send a vehicle to Stansted Airport or somwhere equally
irrelevant.

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by Graham J
I can imagine calling the police with 'Colchester Town Hall' and their
response being to send a vehicle to Stansted Airport or somwhere equally
irrelevant.

Like Lowestoft Town Hall ?

[JMB99]

Post by NY
I offered to stop and read the old-fashioned number from the red and
white marked posts on the hard shoulder. No better - his system couldn't
handle that info either. If I didn't have a postcode or a road name or a
junction number, he was stuffed.

I remember years ago reporting a parked car with a very out of date tax
disc. They wanted the postcode even though I was hundreds of miles from
home in the main street of a small town and could name the shops near
the car.

[JMB99]

Post by Andy Burns
Correct, but local knowledge (e.g. road names/numbers) is not likely to
be as good, perhaps not as critical as it once was, with EISEC knowing
mobile location etc.

The problems arise when the call centre operator then looks at the
accurate (hopefully) position on his computer mapping system and picks
the nearest named location which is often somewhere that most people
have never heard of.

[Codger]

Post by JMB99

Post by Andy Burns
Correct, but local knowledge (e.g. road names/numbers) is not likely to
be as good, perhaps not as critical as it once was, with EISEC knowing
mobile location etc.

The problems arise when the call centre operator then looks at the
accurate (hopefully) position on his computer mapping system and picks
the nearest named location which is often somewhere that most people
have never heard of.

Is "What Three Words" still a thing?

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by Codger

Post by JMB99

Post by Andy Burns
Correct, but local knowledge (e.g. road names/numbers) is not likely to
be as good, perhaps not as critical as it once was, with EISEC knowing
mobile location etc.

The problems arise when the call centre operator then looks at the
accurate (hopefully) position on his computer mapping system and picks
the nearest named location which is often somewhere that most people
have never heard of.

Is "What Three Words" still a thing?

https://what3words.com/burns.crazy.critic

[Andy Burns]

Post by Codger

Post by JMB99
The problems arise when the call centre operator then looks at the
accurate (hopefully) position on his computer mapping system and picks
the nearest named location which is often somewhere that most people
have never heard of.

Is "What Three Words" still a thing?

Now, was that caller trying to say

<https://what3words.com/think.credits.apply>

or

<https://what3words.com/think.credit.supply>

before they got cut off?

[Codger]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Codger

Post by JMB99
The problems arise when the call centre operator then looks at the
accurate (hopefully) position on his computer mapping system and picks
the nearest named location which is often somewhere that most people
have never heard of.

Is "What Three Words" still a thing?

Now, was that caller trying to say
<https://what3words.com/think.credits.apply>
or
<https://what3words.com/think.credit.supply>
before they got cut off?

No wonder it has never really caught on!

[Tweed]

Post by Codger

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Codger

Post by JMB99
The problems arise when the call centre operator then looks at the
accurate (hopefully) position on his computer mapping system and picks
the nearest named location which is often somewhere that most people
have never heard of.

Is "What Three Words" still a thing?

Now, was that caller trying to say
<https://what3words.com/think.credits.apply>
or
<https://what3words.com/think.credit.supply>
before they got cut off?

No wonder it has never really caught on!

It needs to be what4words, the extra one being a checksum.

[Graham J]

Tweed wrote:

[snip]

Post by Tweed
It needs to be what4words, the extra one being a checksum.

Probably not. A checksum would only allow for error detection.

A proper error correction system would identify spelling errors,
mispronunciation and homonyms:

wat free werds
what fore words
etc ...

It also needs a "sanity check" so that a mistake can be identified by
its context. For example a grid reference quoted by crew on a sinking
boat would immediately be queried by land-based emergency staff if that
reference was for somewhere on land.

It would also have to work in foreign languages - presumably every
location has a what3words identifier in all the languages that the
system supports. Then imagine an English speaking person trying to give
a French what3words identifier to the emergency services in France.

Ultimately the problem is that everybody must have access to the
database of identifiers and a map.

By contrast grid references are already widely published (on every map)
and can be worked out from first principles

[Tweed]

Post by Graham J
[snip]

Post by Tweed
It needs to be what4words, the extra one being a checksum.

Probably not. A checksum would only allow for error detection.
A proper error correction system would identify spelling errors,
wat free werds
what fore words
etc ...
It also needs a "sanity check" so that a mistake can be identified by
its context. For example a grid reference quoted by crew on a sinking
boat would immediately be queried by land-based emergency staff if that
reference was for somewhere on land.
It would also have to work in foreign languages - presumably every
location has a what3words identifier in all the languages that the
system supports. Then imagine an English speaking person trying to give
a French what3words identifier to the emergency services in France.
Ultimately the problem is that everybody must have access to the
database of identifiers and a map.
By contrast grid references are already widely published (on every map)
and can be worked out from first principles

A vanishingly small number of the population are able to understand let
alone use grid references. You have to trade ease of use vs accuracy.

Your example of a misquoted grid reference showing a sailor to be on land
is in itself an example of a checksum.

Grid references quoted as numbers will also suffer in translation across
language barriers.

All systems require a lookup against a database, either a map (paper or
electronic) for grid references, a postcode database, or the W3W database.

[JMB99]

Post by Tweed
Grid references quoted as numbers will also suffer in translation across
language barriers.

But a number can be read out in any language. Words can pronounced
differently in different languages.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tweed
A vanishingly small number of the population are able to understand let
alone use grid references.

If people were willing to install W3W app, they could be encouraged to
use the official "OS Locate" app that gives 3 digit NGR (XX 999 999 format)

[JMB99]

Post by Andy Burns
If people were willing to install W3W app, they could be encouraged to
use the official "OS Locate" app that gives 3 digit NGR (XX 999 999 format)

Just hope they do not go on holiday to the Channel Islands or Ireland!

[Tweed]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tweed
A vanishingly small number of the population are able to understand let
alone use grid references.

If people were willing to install W3W app, they could be encouraged to
use the official "OS Locate" app that gives 3 digit NGR (XX 999 999 format)

This requires 8 words to be dictated and also contains no checksum.

[JMB99]

Post by Graham J
It also needs a "sanity check" so that a mistake can be identified by
its context.  For example a grid reference quoted by crew on a sinking
boat would immediately be queried by land-based emergency staff if that
reference was for somewhere on land.

At least with other systems you can often realise that something is wrong,

With Lat / Long and NGR, you can adjust the precision needed by only
using part - so with NGR, in some uses you might just use XY 1234 rather
than XY 12xxxx 23xxx.

With W3W being a proprietary system you cannot do that. Can you convert
to Lat / Long or NGR without paying the fee or are you restricted to
just being shown where it is on a map?

[Tweed]

Post by JMB99

Post by Graham J
It also needs a "sanity check" so that a mistake can be identified by
its context.  For example a grid reference quoted by crew on a sinking
boat would immediately be queried by land-based emergency staff if that
reference was for somewhere on land.

At least with other systems you can often realise that something is wrong,
With Lat / Long and NGR, you can adjust the precision needed by only
using part - so with NGR, in some uses you might just use XY 1234 rather
than XY 12xxxx 23xxx.
With W3W being a proprietary system you cannot do that. Can you convert
to Lat / Long or NGR without paying the fee or are you restricted to
just being shown where it is on a map?

https://what3words.com/products/batch-converter

[Andy Burns]

With W3W being a proprietary system you cannot do that.  Can you convert
to Lat / Long or NGR without paying the fee or are you restricted to
just being shown where it is on a map?

There are handy websites that will convert between NGR, lat/lon,
postcode and W3W (e.g. gridreferencefinder.com) but you wouldn't want to
have to fire that up just

[David Woolley]

Post by Graham J
Ultimately the problem is that everybody must have access to the
database of identifiers and a map.

That's the commercial motivation behind it! Service providers have to
pay for the use of the information needed to convert them to latitude
and longitude.

However, I notice it has caught on more than the semi-open plus codes
system with people who volunteer locator codes. The other option seems
to be latitude and longitude precise to much less than the width of a
electron, and invalidated by tectonic drift in no time at all.

The commercial part of plus codes is the place name, for the approximate
location, but the codes can be used in a longer form. The place names
are taken from Google maps.

[Andy Burns]

Post by David Woolley
The commercial part of plus codes is the place name, for the approximate
location, but the codes can be used in a longer form.  The place names
are taken from Google maps.

Plus Codes do claim to be "open source" whatever that means in this
instance, but it is run by google

<https://plus.codes>

does end-up redirected to

<https:/

[David Woolley]

Post by Andy Burns
Plus Codes do claim to be "open source" whatever that means in this
instance, but it is run by google

They are based on Open Location Codes, but the Google ones are in the
shortened form, where an approximate location is used taken from Google
Maps. Some other area names seem to find a usable hit from Google Maps,
so it is not essential to get the official, Google, one, and if the area
is sensibly chosen, a human should be able to constrain the short code
to the right square.

The open source specification is here:
<https://github.com/google/open-location-code/blob/main/docs/specification.md>.

There are sites and apps that will give you the full, code, but I didn't
find any that didn't serve ads. Unfortunately, Google makes it too easy
to get the Google Maps friendly codes, so there is little support for
full code creation, although Google Maps can find full codes.

[David Woolley]

Post by Andy Burns
<https://plus.codes>
does end-up redirected to
<https://maps.google.com/pluscodes>

But it redirects back to plus.codes for actual lookups, and the
resulting URIs contain the full global code, without Google Maps data,
and you can get it to display the full code on the body of the page, as
additional information, even if there is a short code.

Example with no current short code: <https://plus.codes/7CVR7C4V+94>
(random desert location), and one with a short code:
<https://plus.codes/849VCWC7+RW> (click expand on the short code at the
bottom and possibly on the one that appears on the left).

[Andy Burns]

Post by David Woolley
Example with no current short code: <https://plus.codes/7CVR7C4V+94>
<https://plus.codes/849VCWC7+RW> (click expand on the short code at the
bottom and possibly on the one that appears on the left).

They're both white csat in a snow storm here ... seem to work in chrome,
not in firefox

[David Woolley]

Post by Andy Burns
They're both white csat in a snow storm here ... seem to work in chrome,
not in firefox

I used Firefox 115.7.0esr (64-bit) on Debian.

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by David Woolley

Post by Andy Burns
They're both white csat in a snow storm here ... seem to work in chrome,
not in firefox

I used Firefox 115.7.0esr (64-bit) on Debian.

Only 118 and later has the fix for the libwebp issue

[Tweed]

Post by David Woolley

Post by Graham J
Ultimately the problem is that everybody must have access to the
database of identifiers and a map.

That's the commercial motivation behind it! Service providers have to
pay for the use of the information needed to convert them to latitude
and longitude.
However, I notice it has caught on more than the semi-open plus codes
system with people who volunteer locator codes. The other option seems
to be latitude and longitude precise to much less than the width of a
electron, and invalidated by tectonic drift in no time at all.
The commercial part of plus codes is the place name, for the approximate
location, but the codes can be used in a longer form. The place names
are taken from Google maps.

Lat/long in decimal format requires three decimal places to get to around
100 metres accuracy. It’s quite a quantity of numbers to dictate.

[JMB99]

Post by Codger
No wonder it has never really caught on!

There have been a number of failings in the Three Words system that have
been widely publicised and some emergency services have stopped
encouraging its use.

[Abandoned Trolley]

Post by JMB99

Post by Codger
No wonder it has never really caught on!

There have been a number of failings in the Three Words system that have
been widely publicised and some emergency services have stopped
encouraging its use.

You are almost suggesting that the phonetic alphabet was introduced for
a reason

[Tweed]

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by JMB99

Post by Codger
No wonder it has never really caught on!

There have been a number of failings in the Three Words system that have
been widely publicised and some emergency services have stopped
encouraging its use.

You are almost suggesting that the phonetic alphabet was introduced for
a reason

Indeed, but it is rarely used by the general public.
What3words could easily be improved by adding a 4th word as a checksum and
removing sound alike words. There’s a lot of concentration on the failings
of W3W whilst ignoring the shortcomings of competing methods.

[tony sayer]

Post by Tweed

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by JMB99

Post by Codger
No wonder it has never really caught on!

There have been a number of failings in the Three Words system that have
been widely publicised and some emergency services have stopped
encouraging its use.

You are almost suggesting that the phonetic alphabet was introduced for
a reason

Indeed, but it is rarely used by the general public.
What3words could easily be improved by adding a 4th word as a checksum and
removing sound alike words. There’s a lot of concentration on the failings
of W3W whilst ignoring the shortcomings of competing methods.

I thought that when you dialled 112 or 999 most phones would tag a GPS
reference to that, or have i got that wrong?...

Remember being out in the wilderness of Suffolk bint on the recovery
service wanted a postcode silly sods, but the recovery bloke called me i
was successfully able to describe my location, local knowledge eh;?...

[JMB99]

Post by tony sayer
Remember being out in the wilderness of Suffolk bint on the recovery
service wanted a postcode silly sods, but the recovery bloke called me i
was successfully able to describe my location, local knowledge eh;?...

My car had a problem one lunchtime when I was leaving work to go for
lunch, we were just a mile or so from the town centre.

It was under warranty so rang Renault Assistance, gave the postcode but
they could not find it on their system (it was not a new site). After
several minutes getting nowhere, I gave the old name of the site (we had
been privatised).

The AA man arrived a couple of minutes later!

He followed me as I drove it to the dealer where they pinched a spare
part out of a new van in the showroom!

[JMB99]

By chance there is press release on Twitter just now.


🆕 @OrdnanceSurvey
have today released new location datasets that will help deliver
improved public services.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-psga-data-will-help-speed-up-emergency-response-times


Though not sure why the ambulance at the top of the piece is in Red and
Yellow Battenberg?

[Andy Burns]

Post by JMB99
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-psga-data-will-help-speed-up-emergency-response-times
Though not sure why the ambulance at the top of the piece is in Red and
Yellow Battenberg?

Looks like someone copied an Irish photo ...

<https://tineye.com/search/8b41d80b2aee3dc677fcfc08d8c39f38912dbcf5?sort=score&order=desc&page=1>

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by JMB99
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-psga-data-will-help-speed-up-emergency-response-times
Though not sure why the ambulance at the top of the piece is in Red
and Yellow Battenberg?

Looks like someone copied an Irish photo ...

Or a Belgian shutterstock image?

[JMB99]

Post by Andy Burns
Looks like someone copied an Irish photo ...

Would have thought they would like them painted green!

[David Woolley]

Post by tony sayer
I thought that when you dialled 112 or 999 most phones would tag a GPS
reference to that, or have i got that wrong?...

If you don't disable it, emergency location services will send a
location, but not as part of the call. There seem to be various options,
including SMS and https, but I couldn't, quickly, find what the UK uses.
I suspect it SMS.

On Android, it will use every available location source, turning them
on, if necessary, not just GPS.

[Chris in Makati]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 21:05:31 +0000, David Woolley

Post by David Woolley

Post by tony sayer
I thought that when you dialled 112 or 999 most phones would tag a GPS
reference to that, or have i got that wrong?...

If you don't disable it, emergency location services will send a
location, but not as part of the call. There seem to be various options,
including SMS and https, but I couldn't, quickly, find what the UK uses.
I suspect it SMS.

When I called NHS 111 from my iPhone last week they sent me a text
message containing a hyperlink to share my location with them,

[David Woolley]

Post by Chris in Makati
When I called NHS 111 from my iPhone last week they sent me a text
message containing a hyperlink to share my location with them,

111 is not an official emergency number.

[Chris in Makati]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:32:49 +0000, David Woolley

Post by David Woolley

Post by Chris in Makati
When I called NHS 111 from my iPhone last week they sent me a text
message containing a hyperlink to share my location with them,

111 is not an official emergency number.

No, but that doesn't mean they don't use the same technique for
ascertaining a callers location. I was only supporting your suggestion
that they use SMS,

[Roger]

On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:39:14 +0000, Abandoned Trolley

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by JMB99

Post by Codger
No wonder it has never really caught on!

There have been a number of failings in the Three Words system that have
been widely publicised and some emergency services have stopped
encouraging its use.

You are almost suggesting that the phonetic alphabet was introduced for
a reason

I think you mean "phonetic alphabets". I had to learn two in my
job, neither of which is used by the UK emergency services.

[tony sayer]

Post by Roger
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:39:14 +0000, Abandoned Trolley

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by JMB99

Post by Codger
No wonder it has never really caught on!

There have been a number of failings in the Three Words system that have
been widely publicised and some emergency services have stopped
encouraging its use.

You are almost suggesting that the phonetic alphabet was introduced for
a reason

I think you mean "phonetic alphabets". I had to learn two in my
job, neither of which is used by the UK emergency services.

Knew there was the old; Able Baker Charlie one but two?.

What did you used to do?...

[JMB99]

Post by tony sayer
Knew there was the old; Able Baker Charlie one but two?.

Obviously can't hear them now but in the days when you could hear the
emergency services, I am sure they used the standard 'International' /
NATO phonetic alphabet.

[Roger]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 15:29:32 +0000, tony sayer

Post by tony sayer

Post by Roger
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:39:14 +0000, Abandoned Trolley

Post by Abandoned Trolley

Post by JMB99

Post by Codger
No wonder it has never really caught on!

There have been a number of failings in the Three Words system that have
been widely publicised and some emergency services have stopped
encouraging its use.

You are almost suggesting that the phonetic alphabet was introduced for
a reason

I think you mean "phonetic alphabets". I had to learn two in my
job, neither of which is used by the UK emergency services.

Knew there was the old; Able Baker Charlie one but two?.
What did you used to do?...

Firstly continental telephone operator then transferred to
international.

For continental we had to learn

Amsterdam, Baltimore, Casablanca, Denmark, Edison, Florida,
Gallipoli, Havana, Italy, Jerusalem, Kilogramme, Liverpool,
Madagascar, New York, Oslo, Paris, Quebec, Rome, Santiago,
Tripoli, Uppsala, Valencia, Washington, Xantippe, Yokohama,
Zurich

For international

Alfred, Benjamin, Charles, David, Edward, Frederick, George,
Harry, Isaac, Jack, King, London, Mary, Nellie, Oliver,
Peter, Queen, Robert, Samuel, Tommy, Uncle, Victor, William,
X-ray, Yellow, Zebra

[Java Jive]

Post by Roger
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 15:29:32 +0000, tony sayer

Post by tony sayer

Post by Roger
I think you mean "phonetic alphabets". I had to learn two in my
job, neither of which is used by the UK emergency services.

Knew there was the old; Able Baker Charlie one but two?.
What did you used to do?...

Firstly continental telephone operator then transferred to
international.
For continental we had to learn
Amsterdam, Baltimore, Casablanca, Denmark, Edison, Florida,
Gallipoli, Havana, Italy, Jerusalem, Kilogramme, Liverpool,
Madagascar, New York, Oslo, Paris, Quebec, Rome, Santiago,
Tripoli, Uppsala, Valencia, Washington, Xantippe, Yokohama,
Zurich
For international
Alfred, Benjamin, Charles, David, Edward, Frederick, George,
Harry, Isaac, Jack, King, London, Mary, Nellie, Oliver,
Peter, Queen, Robert, Samuel, Tommy, Uncle, Victor, William,
X-ray, Yellow, Zebra

I *think* I've learnt two, the first as part of Combined Cadet Force
(CCF) training at school and the one I use now, listed below. As far as
ageing memory allows, I think the CCF was pretty close to the modern one
but differed in some places, but details now forgotten, hence my
uncertainty:

Letter|Word|Spoken as
A ALPHA ALFAH
B BRAVO BRAHVOH
C CHARLIE CHARLEE
D DELTA DELLTAH
E ECHO ECKOH
F FOXTROT FOKSTROT
G GOLF GOLF
H HOTEL HOHTELL
I INDIA INDEEAH
J JULIET JEWLEEETT
K KILO KEYLOH
L LIMA LEEMAH
M MIKE MIKE
N NOVEMBER NOVEMBER
O OSCAR OSSCAR
P PAPA PAHPAH
Q QUEBEC KEHBECK
R ROMEO ROWMEOH
S SIERRA SEEAIRRAH
T TANGO TANGGO
U UNIFORM YOUNEEFORM
V VICTOR VIKTAH
W WHISKEY WISSKEY
X X-RAY ECKSRAY
Y YANKEE YANGKEY
Z ZULU ZOOLOO

[JMB99]

Post by Java Jive
I *think* I've learnt two, the first as part of Combined Cadet Force
(CCF) training at school and the one I use now, listed below.  As far as
ageing memory allows, I think the CCF was pretty close to the modern one
but differed in some places, but details now forgotten, hence my

There is always A for 'Orses, B for Mutton .....

[Java Jive]

Post by JMB99
There is always A for 'Orses, B for Mutton .....

My stepfather taught me that joke one, let's see now ...

A for 'Orses
B for 'Am
C for Th Highlanders
D for ential
E for ?
F for vescence
G for ?
H for ?
I for Novello
J for ?
K for ?
L for Leather
M for ?
N for ?
O for the Wings of a Dove
P for ?
Q for the cinema
R for Askey (or was it some other Arthur?)
S for ?
T for two
U for me
V for Regina (or something similar)
W for ?
X for ?
Y for goodness
Z for ?

I seem to have remembered half of them after probably 50 odd years since
I last heard it, and 40 since my stepfather died. Suggestions for the
rest seem to be here, from which I now seem to remember the additional
ones below:

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/the-definitive-cockney-alphabet-20050115-gdkhty.html

G for police
H before beauty
J for oranges
P for a penny
X for breakfast

[Peter Johnson]

Post by JMB99

Post by Abandoned Trolley
I am not completely sure that this is "news"
Some of these enhancements were supposed to be implemented when the
ESMCP was rolled out - but that was kicked off more than 10 years ago.

I think it has been standard for years for all the emergency services to
be able to hand over to adjacent areas in the event of failures or
extremely busy periods.

The OP's message was about the failure of the 999 telephone system.
The Fire Services Act of 1947 (Section 2) requires fire services to
provide mutual assistance, so one authority can call on the resources
of another, usually adjacent, when required, on an ad hoc basis.
Section 12 permits the functions of one authority to be discharged by
another by prior agreement. So an area of south Notts is, or used to
be, covered by Loughborough fire station in Leics, because their
appliances could get there more quickly than Notts'. Not far away, the
area around Old Dalby was covered by the Army Fire Service on the army
base there, that I suspect I suspect was closed a good few years ago;
it's nearly 25 years since I left Leics Fire Service.

[JMB99]

Post by Peter Johnson
The OP's message was about the failure of the 999 telephone system.
The Fire Services Act of 1947 (Section 2) requires fire services to
provide mutual assistance, so one authority can call on the resources
of another, usually adjacent, when required, on an ad hoc basis.
Section 12 permits the functions of one authority to be discharged by
another by prior agreement. So an area of south Notts is, or used to
be, covered by Loughborough fire station in Leics, because their
appliances could get there more quickly than Notts'. Not far away, the
area around Old Dalby was covered by the Army Fire Service on the army
base there, that I suspect I suspect was closed a good few years ago;
it's nearly 25 years since I left Leics Fire Service.

Pre-AIRWAVE there were areas of the Highland where police (and perhaps
fire) carried to radios so they had comms in adjacent areas. In those
days there were some incompatible systems in different areas, typically
just AM or FM because there were many parts of the UK with adjacent
forces using AM or FM. There was at least one radio type that could
operate anywhere in the UK (a friend had one in his car). It was easier
later because every channel in the radio could be programmed differently.

By the way, I was told that in those days the police would sometimes
arrange to use a channel on an adjacent force's radio system so the
baddies would not hear them if they had a scanner on the local force's
channel.

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Post by Java Jive
Plans to boost resilience of 999 system announced
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68625233
"The government has announced new measures it says will boost the
resilience of the 999 system, following its worst outage in almost 90 years.
A nationwide technical issue meant calls were not connected to emergency
services in June 2023.
The government will increase its oversight of any future incidents and
improve communications between emergency services.
BT, which manages the system, says it "fell short of its own high
standards."
Ofcom is investigating the telecoms firm, which took responsibility for
the fault, with the outcome expected in the coming months."

Interesting but not surprising to see this post end up with discussions
about "first contact" centres in the emergency services when the news
article is entirely about the 999 network run by BT, which is between
the user and first contact.

Oh well.