OT: Met Office web page

[Graham J]

For example:

<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>

This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
Now it shows both and ignores the selector. Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.

Anybody else see this? Has been like it since yesterday.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
 Now it shows both and ignores the selector.  Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this?

The °C/°F droplist works properly for me, what about the windspeed
droplist for you?

[Graham J]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a
selector.   Now it shows both and ignores the selector.  Same on
Chrome, Firefox Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this?

The °C/°F droplist works properly for me, what about the windspeed
droplist for you?

Windspeed has 5 rows, matching the list in the droplist box; same for
wind gust. Visibility shows 2 rows.

Chrome & Firefox are running on Windows 7. I don't have MS Edge. A
very old Internet Explorer shows multiple rows.

Safari runs on an iPad version 15.8.2

[Andy Burns]

Post by Graham J
Windspeed has 5 rows, matching the list in the droplist box; same for
wind gust. Visibility shows 2 rows.

I presume the way the webpage is intended to work then, is that both
temperature rows are always present, but only one should be visible, and
that all five windspeed rows are also always present, but only one is
visible at a time

Probably javascript is responsible for the hiding/showing of required
rows, have you got anything blocking some/all javascript?

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Graham J
Windspeed has 5 rows, matching the list in the droplist box; same for
wind gust. Visibility shows 2 rows.

I presume the way the webpage is intended to work then, is that both
temperature rows are always present, but only one should be visible, and
that all five windspeed rows are also always present, but only one is
visible at a time

Yes it does, and i have managed to reproduce Graham's problem (starting
from a working screen). The CSS seems to lose the 'display' property, and
so everything is shown. Refresh gets a working screen back. (Firefox).

i was using developer tools, and the settings screen, don't know the
exact sequence yet.

Post by Andy Burns
Probably javascript is responsible for the hiding/showing of required rows,
have you got anything blocking some/all javascript?

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Graham J
Windspeed has 5 rows, matching the list in the droplist box; same for
wind gust. Visibility shows 2 rows.

I presume the way the webpage is intended to work then, is that both
temperature rows are always present, but only one should be visible, and
that all five windspeed rows are also always present, but only one is
visible at a time

 Yes it does, and i have managed to reproduce Graham's problem (starting
from a working screen). The CSS seems to lose the 'display' property, and
so everything is shown. Refresh gets a working screen back. (Firefox).
 I was using developer tools, and the settings screen, don't know the
exact sequence yet.

Probably inspecting a (Fahrenheit) temperature element, navigated to the
part of forecast.css which includes 'display: none', then accidently
pressed Delete whilst in the style editor, which removed:

temperature-cell-value, .wind-speed-value, .wind-gust-cell-value,
.visibility-cell-value, .humidity-cell-value {
&:not(.no-data) {
display: none;
}
}

Post by Andy Burns
Probably javascript is responsible for the hiding/showing of required
rows, have you got anything blocking some/all javascript?

Possibly a problem with '@media only screen' ....

[Andy Burns]

Same on Chrome, Firefox Safari,

if you're on Win7, I think you can't be running current/supported
versions of browsers, maybe the metoffice have decided to use newer
javascript/dom features that only exist in newer/supported browsers

I read elsewhere today that a widely used polyfill library (used to
bring newer features to older browsers) has been hacked, so maybe the
metoffice see it as a suitable time to stop using polyfills?

[Graham J]

Post by Andy Burns

Same on Chrome, Firefox Safari,

if you're on Win7, I think you can't be running current/supported
versions of browsers, maybe the metoffice have decided to use newer
javascript/dom features that only exist in newer/supported browsers
I read elsewhere today that a widely used polyfill library (used to
bring newer features to older browsers) has been hacked, so maybe the
metoffice see it as a suitable time to stop using polyfills?

I accept that my Firefox and Chrome on Win 7 might have trouble using
newer javascript features. Firefox version is 115.12.0esr.

But the iPad is fully up to date running 15.8.2 so I would expect its
Safari to cope with any new javascript requirements. But Safari shows
the same strange failure. I don't have any other Apple products to try .

Just installed Firefox on the iPad. Exactly similar behaviour with the
MetOffice website. Firefox reports itself to be version 127.1 (42781).

The only common component is they all use the same internet connection;
but so does the Android phone when I'm at home so that doesn't seem a
viable theory.

[Graham J]

Andy Burns wrote:

[snip]

I have noticed (and ignored) a prompt at the top of the page "Trial our
new weather data on your device." with a link to
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/enhanced-forecast-weather-data-trial>

That link doesn't appear on Firefox or Chrome using Win 7. It does
appear on Chrome using Android.

Maybe the whole site changes if you've clicked that and it sets a cookie?

I used the link from your post, opening it with SeaMonkey. It allows an
alternate source of forecast data.

SeaMonkey also shows the same multi-line displays rather than honouring
the selection in the droplist.

The people best placed to know ways in which it could go wrong, are the
metoffice
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/forms/website-feedback>

Tried that - the site suspects that I am a robot so won't let me report
the problem.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Graham J
SeaMonkey also shows the same multi-line displays rather than honouring
the selection in the droplist.

can't see how some many devices do "the wrong thing" on a single
website, just because they're on your network ... if you tether them to
a mifi/mobile do they do anything different?

Reboot your router? Have you got a PiHole or a "blocking" nameserver
like Cisco umbrella/openDNS?

[Graham J]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Graham J
SeaMonkey also shows the same multi-line displays rather than
honouring the selection in the droplist.

can't see how some many devices do "the wrong thing" on a single
website, just because they're on your network ... if you tether them to
a mifi/mobile do they do anything different?

No viable mobile signal here ...

[Chris]

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
Now it shows both and ignores the selector. Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this? Has been like it since yesterday.

I can only see celsius.

[Tim+]

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
Now it shows both and ignores the selector. Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this? Has been like it since yesterday.

Working fine in safari. Are you sure you’re not mixing up high/low range
of temp with F/C?

Tim

[Pete W]

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
Now it shows both and ignores the selector. Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this? Has been like it since yesterday.

Works OK for me using Linux Mint 21.3, Cinnamon & FF 127.0.2 (64bit)
and under settings I can switch between C & F
---
Pete.

[grinch]

Post by Pete W

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
Now it shows both and ignores the selector. Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this? Has been like it since yesterday.

Works OK for me using Linux Mint 21.3, Cinnamon & FF 127.0.2 (64bit)
and under settings I can switch between C & F
---
Pete.

Just spun up an old old version of windows(10) as a VM on my Linux box
and both FF and edge work properly as does FF on my Linux box which is
openSUSE 15.6.

Perhaps you need to upgrade to a supported OS. I always though people
who run windows are brave running an EOL version is suicidal.

[Graham J]

grinch wrote:

[snip]

Post by grinch
Perhaps you need to upgrade to a supported OS. I always though people
who run windows are brave running  an EOL version is suicidal.

I think Safari on iPad OS version 15.8.2 is fully supported - yet is
still fails ...

[Richmond]

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a
selector. Now it shows both and ignores the selector. Same on
Chrome, Firefox Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this? Has been like it since yesterday.

I see it. I don't usually use firefox but someone reported it in
alt.comp.software.firefox and so I reported it there too with more
detail.

[Java Jive]

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
 Now it shows both and ignores the selector.  Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this?  Has been like it since yesterday.

Yes, and other anomalies on the site, the Met Office site is a SNAFU yet
again:

www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/MetOffFU.png

Note, besides the problems you have noted:

:-( The picture at the top overlays/replaces the tabs to show the
forecast for the ensuing days.

:-( Some of tomorrows details are out of alignment with today's

The Met Office obviously have staff with too little work of real
importance, so they idle their time away tinkering with and breaking
what used to work perfectly well and didn't need changing.

I can't use their weather app on my mobile any more. One day I got a
message that it had been updated and this old version was no longer
supported, so I should install the updated version, however, when I
tried to do so, it refused to install because my version of Android was
too old. So now I use the BBC one instead. It's not as good, and
they've lost a user, so everyone has lost, just because they updated
something that didn't need updating.

[Graham J]

grinch wrote:

[snip]

Is the problem related to this ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/25/polyfillio_china_crisis/

Seems likely. The picture from Java Jive shows what I see.

[grinch]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a
selector.   Now it shows both and ignores the selector.  Same on
Chrome, Firefox Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this?  Has been like it since yesterday.

Yes, and other anomalies on the site, the Met Office site is a SNAFU yet
www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/MetOffFU.png
:-(  The picture at the top overlays/replaces the tabs to show the
forecast for the ensuing days.
:-(  Some of tomorrows details are out of alignment with today's
The Met Office obviously have staff with too little work of real
importance, so they idle their time away tinkering with and breaking
what used to work perfectly well and didn't need changing.
I can't use their weather app on my mobile any more.  One day I got a
message that it had been updated and this old version was no longer
supported, so I should install the updated version, however, when I
tried to do so, it refused to install because my version of Android was
too old.  So now I use the BBC one instead.  It's not as good, and
they've lost a user, so everyone has lost, just because they updated
something that didn't need updating.

Works correctly and completely with up-to-date browsers like FF 127

Is the problem related to this ?

https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/25/polyfillio_china_crisis/

[Andy Burns]

Is the problem related to this ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/25/polyfillio_china_crisis/

Yes, I mentioned polyfills earlier, I can see a lot of sites which have
been relying on them to support old browsers saying "sod that" all of a
sudden.

[Java Jive]

Post by Java Jive

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a
selector.   Now it shows both and ignores the selector.  Same on
Chrome, Firefox Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this?  Has been like it since yesterday.

Yes, and other anomalies on the site, the Met Office site is a SNAFU
www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/MetOffFU.png
:-(  The picture at the top overlays/replaces the tabs to show the
forecast for the ensuing days.
:-(  Some of tomorrows details are out of alignment with today's
The Met Office obviously have staff with too little work of real
importance, so they idle their time away tinkering with and breaking
what used to work perfectly well and didn't need changing.
I can't use their weather app on my mobile any more.  One day I got a
message that it had been updated and this old version was no longer
supported, so I should install the updated version, however, when I
tried to do so, it refused to install because my version of Android
was too old.  So now I use the BBC one instead.  It's not as good, and
they've lost a user, so everyone has lost, just because they updated
something that didn't need updating.

Works correctly and completely  with up-to-date browsers like FF 127

My screen grab was of the latest version of Pale Moon 33.2.0 64-Bit.
Firefox 115.12.0esr 64-Bit is a little better, in that the tabs for the
following days are actually visible, but the remaining problems are there.

Is the problem related to this ?
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/25/polyfillio_china_crisis/

Very possibly that was the trigger in this particular case, but IME the
Met Office have a track record of unnecessarily breaking their own site
by 'fixing' what is already working perfectly satisfactorily.

The vulnerabilities reported by The Register demonstrate yet again the
stupidity of:

:-( Trying to do things with JavaScript that simpler
standards-compliant HTML could achieve more reliably ...

https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.metoffice.gov.uk%2Fweather%2Fforecast%2Fgfkdukcx3

... though admittedly that's better than many, at least they're all
warnings rather than errors. And, JOOI ...

https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theregister.com%2F2024%2F06%2F25%2Fpolyfillio_china_crisis%2F

... is even better, just a few Infos. However the fact that these sites
have even only these does rather suggest that the developers of neither
are in the habit of standards checking their output. Sadly however,
others can be much, much worse.

:-( Buying JavaScript in from other sites.

:-( Trying to do on the customer's browser what can more reliably
and securely done at the server using Content Delivery services in
conjunction with languages like PHP.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Java Jive
www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/MetOffFU.png

If it's any consolation, it looks a lot worse in FF 1.0

<Loading Image...>

needed a http-to-https proxy to allow it to connect with modern encryption.

[Graham J]

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
 Now it shows both and ignores the selector.  Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this?  Has been like it since yesterday.

OP here ...

Seems to be working OK this morning.

<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-07-01>

[Nick Finnigan]

Post by Graham J

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a selector.
  Now it shows both and ignores the selector.  Same on Chrome, Firefox
Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this?  Has been like it since yesterday.

OP here ...
Seems to be working OK this morning.
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-07-01>

The css seems to have been updated.

[Java Jive]

Post by Graham J

Post by Graham J
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-06-28>
This used to show temperatures in either C or F according to a
selector.   Now it shows both and ignores the selector.  Same on
Chrome, Firefox Safari, but Chrome on Android looks OK.
Anybody else see this?  Has been like it since yesterday.

OP here ...
Seems to be working OK this morning.
<https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u12d1jksg#?date=2024-07-01>

Nearly alright in Firefox 115.12.0esr, not in Pale Moon 33.2.0, both
64-Bit. In both, part of today's name is overlaid by some sort of
non-functional button or similar. In Pale Moon, the doubled
temperatures and the misalignment between today and tomorrow have been
fixed, but not the missing tabs:

Original PM error (renamed to distinguish it from today's):

www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/MetOffFU_20240629.png

Now:

www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/MetOffFU_20240701.png

[Andy Burns]

Post by Java Jive
www.macfh.co.uk/Temp/MetOffFU_20240701.png

Still quite different from what I see, at least they haven't broken it
for people who were working last week

<Loading Image...>

[Andy Burns]

Post by Java Jive
Nearly alright in Firefox 115.12.0esr, not in Pale Moon 33.2.0

Is there a way to tell what version of FF a given PM version is based on?